EPT[Z] How to cheese your way to Master League - Page 4
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
GhetoGeek
1 Post
| ||
|
dehdar
170 Posts
On February 21 2011 06:49 GhetoGeek wrote: Hey I'm a noob, what do you mean when you say 1x2, 2x2, etc when talking about making zerglings? I'm the noob for not being able to express myself correctly. When you transform larva to zerglings, you get 2 zerglings for every larva. So when I say make 1x2 zerglings, I mean transform 1 larva to 2 zerglings. When I say 2x2 zerglings, I mean transform 2 larva to (x2 = ) 4 zerglings... Yes very confusing. I should remove the x2 :D | ||
|
DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On February 21 2011 06:12 _Aurus_ wrote: You mean the Build Order 7pool 7overlord or something special, because If I would play protoss, and i see a 7pool i would build cannons too. 7 pool, 2 drones, 8 overlord, of course. | ||
|
Tatari
United States1179 Posts
... Even without walling off and still going standard as Protoss I can make Zergs rage so hard when their cheese fails. | ||
|
Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:40 Brutus wrote: To be honest, I am disappointed. How can a master player lose to a 6 pool, roach rush or a spine crawler rush? I thought diamond/master players would be able to defend it :/ You know, Jinro only survived IdrA's 6pool in GSL because he accidentally cancelled his marine, and even so he was one zergling attack away from losing. ActionJesus took down a lot of top players with 6pool in a single tourny. It's the type of build that basically removes all skill inequalities, and it outright kills a lot of builds that are otherwise viable at the top level. All you need are a few conditions to be right. | ||
|
tuestresfat
2555 Posts
| ||
|
BuzzCraftTV
United States42 Posts
On February 21 2011 00:19 hifriend wrote: Love it when z tries to 6-pool me.. Such a freewin in this game, forges go up so fast. :D Wait.. You think spending the first 200 minerals and a drone on spawning pool transitions well into macro? 7 pool can be used this way, ever watch rootCatz on steps vs P? he loves that move :-D usually gets the gold up after into hydra tech while p is still on 1 base | ||
|
michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
edit: Okay, I'm watching these zvt replays and I'm a bit sad: Game 1: Your opponent opens 1rax OC into 2rax expand with no hint of aggression and plays at 20 apm. Game 2: Your opponent opens 1-1-1 on steppes of war and loses to early aggression at 20 apm. Game 3: Your opponent opens 1-1-1 and loses to early aggression. Game 4: Your opponent opens 1-1-expand and loses to early aggression while significantly supply blocking himself. You also break his rocks (shak) instead of his ramp, although you could easily have broken his ramp as well. Game 5: Your opponent finanlly opens 2-rax FE. While your opponent opted to 2-rax into your base after manner blocking you (a poor decision), I do think this is a great example of the strategy you mention. My biggest question after watching this is: do terrans not 2-rax in tvz on NA server now? 90% of the games I've played on SEA, the terran opens 2-rax aggression blindly every game, usually into 2-rax FE. Games 1-4 show stupid openers vs. zerg with poor scouting (given the information they had). Here, when they know you haven't expanded, they open 1-1-1 or some silly tech/expand without any defense to hold off 1-base aggression that is obviously coming. Game 5 shows a below average 2-rax expand that gets owned, although it does look like you'd have won anyway. My second question is: Do you typically lose to "2-rax --> turtle" with this build, or did you just not post the replays? I've usually been doing 7RR which is admittedly much easier to scout and prepare for, and I like where this is going, as it hits a couple overlapping timing windows on terran's side (before banshee/siege, before expo from 2-rax, before drop shenanigans). Would you care to share a few more replays, even losses? I would much appreciate it. | ||
|
aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
| ||
|
michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On February 21 2011 08:51 aka_star wrote: I don't understand why you'd want to cheese into Masters, once you get there if you don't know how to play then your pretty much a sitting duck needing to lose to get back to your current skill set. At least for me, there are two reasons: Most of my 1v1 practice is in custom games with mid-high master level players. I feel I am near or slightly below them in approximate skill, and I don't have the desire to engage in a 40 minute macro game with a player I can beat with a simple rush. So in my case, I feel (rightfully or wrongfully) that I already have the macro skill set to compete in better games. The second reason is that SEA is so inactive, according to my top 200 analysis, I can actually rank in the top 200 by spending my bonus pool and being only a slightly above average master league player. (There are only 5 master divisions at the moment, and still almost a dozen inactive diamond players from 1.1 in the top 200.) Because I am very curious/excited for the grand master league, SEA presents an opportunity to join the ranks with far less effort than would be required on either NA or KOR, both far more competitive servers. Obviously cheesing won't get me there, but it does speed up the process for someone like me who had played very few 1v1 ladder games until recently. | ||
|
Lochat
United States270 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:24 Zerokaiser wrote: You know, Jinro only survived IdrA's 6pool in GSL because he accidentally cancelled his marine, and even so he was one zergling attack away from losing. ActionJesus took down a lot of top players with 6pool in a single tourny. It's the type of build that basically removes all skill inequalities, and it outright kills a lot of builds that are otherwise viable at the top level. All you need are a few conditions to be right. Sir, don't break the pathetic cheeser's deluded belief that they're not inept players breaking the game to get an arbitrary rating that gives them nothing. Remember, doing one thing is "strategy" not "just a thing you're going" Now, excuse me, I have to strategy me up some coffee. | ||
|
dehdar
170 Posts
On February 21 2011 08:44 michaelhasanalias wrote: Thanks for sharing this. I've been cheesing my way along SEA Ladder to burn my bonus pool and collect some data, but I haven't found a zvt strat I liked until now. edit: Okay, I'm watching these zvt replays and I'm a bit sad: Game 1: Your opponent opens 1rax OC into 2rax expand with no hint of aggression and plays at 20 apm. Game 2: Your opponent opens 1-1-1 on steppes of war and loses to early aggression at 20 apm. Game 3: Your opponent opens 1-1-1 and loses to early aggression. Game 4: Your opponent opens 1-1-expand and loses to early aggression while significantly supply blocking himself. You also break his rocks (shak) instead of his ramp, although you could easily have broken his ramp as well. Game 5: Your opponent finanlly opens 2-rax FE. While your opponent opted to 2-rax into your base after manner blocking you (a poor decision), I do think this is a great example of the strategy you mention. My biggest question after watching this is: do terrans not 2-rax in tvz on NA server now? 90% of the games I've played on SEA, the terran opens 2-rax aggression blindly every game, usually into 2-rax FE. Games 1-4 show stupid openers vs. zerg with poor scouting (given the information they had). Here, when they know you haven't expanded, they open 1-1-1 or some silly tech/expand without any defense to hold off 1-base aggression that is obviously coming. Game 5 shows a below average 2-rax expand that gets owned, although it does look like you'd have won anyway. My second question is: Do you typically lose to "2-rax --> turtle" with this build, or did you just not post the replays? I've usually been doing 7RR which is admittedly much easier to scout and prepare for, and I like where this is going, as it hits a couple overlapping timing windows on terran's side (before banshee/siege, before expo from 2-rax, before drop shenanigans). Would you care to share a few more replays, even losses? I would much appreciate it. A lot of players do 2-rax (marine + bunker) and when they do, I end the game quite often. However players who set for an early (5-6min) M&M rush will destroy this built. I don't have many replays where I lose and the ones I have, is all mid/late game losses, but I'll save and upload vidoes of when my cheese is countered in the future. Usually when I do lose to 2-rax, 1-1-1, 2 gateway walls or 14 pool on 2 player maps, it's because I make minor micro mistakes or mess up my build order. When I'm not 100 percent focused all of these strategies tend to be less effective for obvious reasons  I uploaded a game vs a decent 2-rax terran player. The link is also posted in the main thread. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142404-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war | ||
|
ABCSFirebird
Germany90 Posts
On February 21 2011 08:51 aka_star wrote: I don't understand why you'd want to cheese into Masters, once you get there if you don't know how to play then your pretty much a sitting duck needing to lose to get back to your current skill set. I think once you are in masters it is easier to detect your mistakes and you learn certain timings better. The mistakes people make at least until they are in diamond weight far too heavy to learn the game in a proper way. | ||
|
aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
On February 21 2011 19:56 ABCSFirebird wrote: I think once you are in masters it is easier to detect your mistakes and you learn certain timings better. The mistakes people make at least until they are in diamond weight far too heavy to learn the game in a proper way. I think its obvious that a low skill player getting into masters this way would have less mechanics to fall back on than someone grinding their way through the lower leagues, Once in masters they arn't going to last long if they are still playing 1 base zerg, and you can't expect them to begin experimenting with fast expanding at that level if they couldn't win games before.... I think its a backwards way of learning and potentially more frustrating to inflate a silver/gold player against a true master player... | ||
|
zazzn
Canada54 Posts
8 drones, pool, 2 drones, ov. Pool finishes 3 lings send 1 drone before lings are done to scout, and make a spine on his creep. He will have to pull 3 drones to address the spine. When he does almost kill it cancel it and if it's surrounded click a mineral patch to float by the drones. When the lings pop send another drone along and make 2 spines the first spine will constantly be making and cancel when low costing him lots of minerals and when your lings get there alot of times it will be half done and you can protect it. Easily countered by 10 then 2x extractor trick to 12 drones, lord pool. and 2 drones. by the time the pool pops he'll be on the way to your base. pop 3x lings, an make a spine in front of your hatch. But spine is not necessary and you will be so far ahead it's stupid. | ||
|
Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
This sounds like the kind of thing a bunch of kiddies would be likely to do so they can tell their friends they're in Masters league. I'd sooner not play this game than advance my ladder rank through cheese. Cheesing one or two games every now and then to keep yourself knowing how to do it if necessary, sure. Cheesing every game specifically to advance is stupidity of the highest order. tl;dr - this is a bad thread and you are a bad person | ||
|
leBIGcrab
France313 Posts
I actually play in Silver League, and i always use the same cheese Vs. Terran, that gets me about 90% wlr. This is the infamous Dimaga's baneling bust. When i miss it, that's because i did something wrong, like delaying my Baneling Nest. The build i use is up on Liquipedia, and i can't see when T will be able to stop it... My 2 cts for people trying to cheese Terrans, as this is my best cheese match-up wlr. I do play "regularly" my PvZ and my ZvZ. | ||
|
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
| ||
|
Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
| ||
|
dementrio
678 Posts
On February 21 2011 23:04 opisska wrote: I am very sorry if I am missing something obvious, but every time 6pooling is discussed here, everyone is so concerned with the wall. Why so? I'm just a pathetic gold player, but rarely loose to 6pools. I just kill the zerglings with the drones, as simple as that. Sure, he killes some of them, but i still usually feel like having an advantage. Why is this so not viable in higher level play? Because a well executed early pool will not suicide the lings into your probes. he can attack your buildings instead, so you will be forced to pull probes, and he can dance around preventing you from mining. | ||
| ||
