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[Z] How to cheese your way to Master League - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
February 24 2011 17:47 GMT
#141
On your zvt build how does that work against early 2rax timings?
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
February 24 2011 18:45 GMT
#142
On February 23 2011 18:41 dehdar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2011 11:03 apalemorning wrote:
On February 23 2011 04:11 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
Just my 2 cents that these cheeses are not all that and a bag of chips, at least at high diamond/low masters level.

I've been stuck at #1 Diamond (3000 pts) for about 3 weeks now, so I thought I'd try some of these cheeses, what the heck. Well... it was a disaster, I lost 5 straight. I think I went 1-10. Every protoss spotted the rush and had a cannon waiting for me. For some reason's Blizz's match maker put me on Steppes 40% of the games. I had removed my downvote for that map thinking 3RR, etc.. would be better on it, but I think it made it too easy for my opponent to scout my early pool and prepare defenses.

I'm usually pretty solid when I've rushed/cheesed in the past, maybe zergs have been reading this thread and there is a ton of cheesing going on right now on ladder, making my opponents on guard, haha.

Anyway, I threw in the towel, and am back to my old macro style and doing much better.




same here dude. i tried to be a cheesy asshole at 3000diamond/agaisnt low masters = 1-6 record. cheese only works til mid diamond, then most people know how to stop a 6pool by then.


I'm very curious as to why both of you failed 6 out of 7 times. Most of my opponents in my 15 out of 21 win streak were high diamond & master protos players who lost to 6 pool. If you could post a few replays I would be happy to analyze the matches.


Maybe that was my mistake, I usually did the 3RR against protoss. I think my one win was win I 7 pooled. To be honest I think part of the problem was map related, on Steppes of War (the map I played most), cheese is 100% expected.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
goldemerald
Profile Joined January 2011
United States39 Posts
February 24 2011 19:44 GMT
#143
LOL Guess what guys!

Thanks to this thread, I made it to masters also! However, I did my own cheeses that worked a little better than 6pools and what not.
Trying is the first step towards failure.
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
February 24 2011 22:24 GMT
#144
Protoss need pylon before gate, now terrans need depot before rax. Just make zerg need OL before pool and end with this mess. I'm not sure i follow the reason for zerg to be an exception to this.
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
February 25 2011 00:07 GMT
#145
well Zerg already has an overlord at start 8/
Bonham
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada655 Posts
February 25 2011 01:22 GMT
#146
Thanks to this thread, I held off a 7-pool on Xel'Naga yesterday. It felt great when I scouted, saw what was coming, and knew exactly what to do. After I held it off, he spined and Queen'd up like crazy. Anxious not to throw away my win, I just expo'd and added gates while chronoboosting upgrades and charge to deal with the modest amount of hydras I scouted him making.

After I won, I sent him "gg" in chat.
Him: bg
Me: Why?
Him: Failed 7-pool is never gg.
Me: Then why 7-pool?
Him: It usually works.
This user is now ignoring you.

Thanks again, zerg cheese thread.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
February 25 2011 05:04 GMT
#147
Indeed I have been beaten many times by Roaches early. I like to open Marine/Hellion Expand into Marine/Tank. If I don't scout the roaches until my Marine/Hellion push gets there, well its pretty much gg.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
dehdar
Profile Joined January 2011
170 Posts
February 25 2011 12:10 GMT
#148
I'm glad to hear that some of you have had success defending against cheese To the people who have sent me pms, I'll watch all of your replays tonight and send you feedback.
MegaPerle
Profile Joined October 2010
France53 Posts
February 25 2011 15:00 GMT
#149
On February 25 2011 07:24 Apolo wrote:
Protoss need pylon before gate, now terrans need depot before rax. Just make zerg need OL before pool and end with this mess. I'm not sure i follow the reason for zerg to be an exception to this.


I have the reason :
pool = 200 + 50(drone) minerals, and Z will need an OL anyway later
barrack + supply = 150 + 100
gate + pylon = 150 + 100

Seems fair, and probably don't need to be changed. What's wrong with early pool? It's not broken as it can reasonably be countered.
Precipice
Profile Joined April 2010
United States121 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-25 15:13:07
February 25 2011 15:12 GMT
#150
Seems a little sketchy to advise other players to cheese their way into masters. Sure it can be done. I have a friend that did it. But are you really helping anyone?
Mastery is the fruit of repetition
Br3ezy
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States720 Posts
February 25 2011 15:15 GMT
#151
how bout isntead of that 7 pool crawler crap just go 6 pool. it is faster then 13 pool so if you fast expand ur fucked
Check out my guide to mechanics http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319876
KaniasReplays
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States39 Posts
February 25 2011 23:49 GMT
#152
This surprisingly works and has helped me jump 25 places in my division. It also gives me a change to perfect Zerg openers and, if failed, allows the awesomeness of the Zerg macro machine to take over. Thanks!
When life gives you lemons, go mass queen.
SeLpHy
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany73 Posts
February 26 2011 00:45 GMT
#153
dehdar , I sent you some replays but you didnt answer. Check your PM box again.
I read this thread again , printed it and i tried it.

8 Games 4 Wins , 4 Looses

http://www.xup.in/dl,64075764/cheeses.rar/ ( FROM TODAY )

I Only won because i had really luck.
In Masters they would have own me instantly!

Can you analyze it for me? What do i do wrong?
Drazzzt
Profile Joined September 2002
Germany999 Posts
February 27 2011 07:41 GMT
#154
Sorry guys, but just don't do this!
Dehdar, u got completely lucky to reach master league with this. The only thing which might work is the 6-pool vs Protoss.
All other stuff is soooo easy to hold for a normal player it's almost ridiculous.
Terran: a simple bunker and you are more or less screwed and t can even get the money back.
Zerg: Any pool before 14 or maybe 13 and you are done with....
And even a 14 pool can do the trick if proper microed.
So, PLS don't follow the OP's advice.
Thx.
Be Nice, Be Fair, Be Mannered.
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
February 27 2011 12:03 GMT
#155
thought I'd add I'm also using a zvt cheese that's working pretty well into mid-high diamond:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195296

It was inspired by your build but does attempt to basically end the game with the initial roach attack, and in the event it holds, I try to have a muta transition already working such that if I can bait a transition, I'll be able to clean up with mutas.

While it has been working well for me, I'm torn at whether it's better to blindly transition to muta before engaging with the roaches, as I did lose to a master player who I broke with roaches simply because he stayed on marine tech while he expanded.

Do you think committing to roaches is more likely to net a win than tech-switching to 2-base muta for a quick follow-up if the 11RR fails?
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Kazlestial
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore32 Posts
February 27 2011 13:15 GMT
#156
Wheres baneling busts ? :O
wopaahh
Profile Joined January 2011
150 Posts
February 27 2011 13:59 GMT
#157
stop playing the way i dont play.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-27 15:20:20
February 27 2011 15:16 GMT
#158
I tried some of these and man, zerg allins feel so so much weaker then toss and terran allins. Just a whole lot easier to hard counter em when scouted compared to the other two races cheesy shit

On February 25 2011 10:22 Bonham wrote:
After I won, I sent him "gg" in chat.


lol, what a tool
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
dehdar
Profile Joined January 2011
170 Posts
February 28 2011 01:26 GMT
#159
On February 26 2011 09:45 SeLpHy wrote:
dehdar , I sent you some replays but you didnt answer. Check your PM box again.
I read this thread again , printed it and i tried it.

8 Games 4 Wins , 4 Looses

http://www.xup.in/dl,64075764/cheeses.rar/ ( FROM TODAY )

I Only won because i had really luck.
In Masters they would have own me instantly!

Can you analyze it for me? What do i do wrong?


Sorry for the late response. I watched your replays and the mistakes you made were very trivial. If you correct them, you'll have a lot more success for sure.

In your first match, you should have destroyed both gateways. You were only attacking one of the gateways, while half of your zerglings were idle. If that's not bad enough you were attacking the gateway that was already completed... The aim of your zerglings attacking his wall is to get through as fast as possible. You could and should have won that game. It took a long time for your opponents first cannon to spawn. If you had attacked both gateways, you would easily have been able to destroy his wall, reached and destroyed his cannon while it was spawning and killed his 1 zealot before ending the game.

In your second match... you were so far ahead. And you quit because you couldn't end the game... After your first assault you had more "workers" than your opponent, you had higher army value and you had way more minerals. Your opponent was even building more static defence than necessary... you had that game won and you quit it. Watch the replay.

In your last match you attacked way too late and your baneling build order wasn't the best. This is the baneling build order that I usually use.

9. overlord
14. gas
14. pool
16. overlord
16. queen.
18. speedling upgrade
20. baneling nest.

Make sure to attack at 5:00-5:30 and no later than 6:00. The sooner the better. Make 6 banelings and hit your opponents supply depo. Once you're inside kill all the combat units. After that you're free to engage his/her SCVS. If the timing is perfect and your opponent isn't a top player it's almost a certain GG for you

On February 27 2011 21:03 michaelhasanalias wrote:
thought I'd add I'm also using a zvt cheese that's working pretty well into mid-high diamond:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195296

It was inspired by your build but does attempt to basically end the game with the initial roach attack, and in the event it holds, I try to have a muta transition already working such that if I can bait a transition, I'll be able to clean up with mutas.

While it has been working well for me, I'm torn at whether it's better to blindly transition to muta before engaging with the roaches, as I did lose to a master player who I broke with roaches simply because he stayed on marine tech while he expanded.

Do you think committing to roaches is more likely to net a win than tech-switching to 2-base muta for a quick follow-up if the 11RR fails?


It's really a nice tactic because taking 2 gas and still pushing early, gives you the flexibility of adapting quickly if your initial push doesn't end the game.

Roaches are imo very underestimated. Lately I've been using them as the core of my army and anything else I built is only there to support my roaches (blings, infestors, corrupters).

About your question, going roach first... I would think the average Terran would transition to tank/marauder after your initial push to counter the roaches. And let's face it the average Terran doesn't scout continously so when those mutas arrive, it's GG

Thanks a lot for the replay, I'll put it on the main thread.
Ratel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada184 Posts
February 28 2011 01:46 GMT
#160
lol 6pool against toss?
you better try 7rr or 3r zerglings instead
6pool is the easiest thing to stop
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