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Inspired/refined from dehdar's thread here: [Z] How to cheese your way to Master League
(ZvT) Delayed 11 Roach Rush Into 1-Base Muta
Strategy: delayed warren (3:45-4:00) into 11 roach rush (hits at 5:45 [5-7] or 6:30 [11] ) into 1-base muta (hits at 10:30-11:00), then expand if necessary. The key is stockpiling larva/minerals in order to transfer those into a powerful burst of roaches.
Goal: This is optimized to counter a number of 2-rax openings that Terran will do, especially 2-rax into mech and 2-rax into FE. It is designed to quickly beat the average diamond-level player who doesn't follow-up on initial scouting.
* In my testing, it seems to break even with master-level players and you must transition to a normal macro game afterward. Against lower players (mid/high Diamond and below) it has shown so far to be a consistent quick-win. I don't necessarily condone this build at or above low master level.
Build:
10 Extractor Trick Drone
11 Overlord
(Drone x2)
13 Spawning Pool
(Drone x3)
16 Overlord
16 Queen
18 Zergling 2x2
(Drone x2)
22 Extractor x2 (6 on gas immediately)
20 Roach Warren (immediately after gas)
20 Overlord x2
20 Roach x11 (Finish at ~5:45-6:00)
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Lair @100 gas
Expand
Spam Drones/OL
Spire @Lair finish (You should have 30 drones before mutas)
5-6 Muta @Spire finish (spawn 9:30-10:00)
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Free transition to standard play if mutas don't end the game.
* Thanks to FabledIntegral for improved expansion timing.
Execution:
- Overlord positioning is key, as it allows you to spot the terran's ramp and kill his bunker/SD/anything else before you push in AND more importantly gives you a concave.
- At ~20 supply, your money will start to build up. It's very key to execute the double extractor + roach + inject correctly, as the queen will basically pop right when you need to do all 4 things at once.
- You will larva cap shortly before the warren pops, but you'll only lose ~1 larva.
- When you finish your initial 11 Roaches and send them out, DON'T PULL OFF GAS. Immediately get Lair tech @100 gas and then spire and then mutas. You need all the gas you can get, and you'll be using every additional larva for drone/OL until shortly before the spire/inject pop.
- If you scout the ramp of the Terran player and don't see enough stuff, the Terran is teching 1-1-1 or 2-port banshee. Attack with 5-7 Roaches as you build your remaining ones. If you scout a reasonable amount of units, you can probably wait for all 11.
How to Counter:
- Don't let your scouting SCV die, keep him incognito. Make sure you scout that there is NO EXPANSION around 4-4:30.
- Scan his base if you can't get your worker up his ramp.
- If you scout anything that looks like 1-base roach (gas, warren, no expansion, lot of drones), use your marines to hunt his forward overlord which will be within 20 squares of your ramp. There are only a couple good hiding spots.
- Tech to marauders and bunker up, gg you crushed the roaches.
Why this works:
This build relies on the terran opponent essentially feeling comfortable and therefore greedy after his initial scouting and "safe" 2-rax opening. Rather than risk SCV loss or MULE loss, he builds up marines, or goes mech, or expands, or whatever he wants to do. This build prays on that false sense of security of the 2-rax opening by pitting an extremely aggressive roach attack during the timing window that the terran player is normally teching or expanding.
Initial scouting will reveal lots of drones and a pool, but no gas, no warren and no expansion. Terran (upon losing the scout), can either scan at 3:30 when OC completes, save energy and wait a bit, or scan at 5:00.
Replays:
 vs  (D) Michael vs ScoobZ ![[image loading]](http://www.topreplays.com/img/layout/download.png) (win vs 2-rax aggression)
vs (P) Michael vs Doragon (win vs 2-rax no aggression)
(M) vs Jeby vs Michael (long game loss)
vs (D) Michael vs duster (later roaches and mutas due to poor macro, win)
(M) vs Trakky vs Michael (2-rax FE, roach/muta late, even after muta harass @12:20, loss)
vs (D) Michael vs Bloodbank (1-1-1, win)
vs Michael vs htok (double bunker ramp into 1-1-1, win)
I'll post more replays soon.
User-submitted replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
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You want to post this in SC2 strategy, not in the general forum.
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On February 22 2011 16:48 manicshock wrote:
You want to post this in SC2 strategy, not in the general forum.
yeah thanks, thought I did. my mistake!
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Can a Terran tell me when banshees or siege tanks come out?
And as follow up questions to OP. Why is this better than the 5rr? There you have 5roaches 16 speedlings and an expansion.
Second question: How many mutas pop out and when? I am actually thinking 7-8 and +1attack.
I can't watch the replay but I like to theorycraft about it while working.
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You're not going to hold off a 2rax with 4 zerglings, and if Terran scouts that you have no natural, he's not going to get greedy. Some more replays would be nice because the game you won was against an atrociously bad player who got supply blocked at 19 before he even started a depot.
EDIT: Guy you lost against wasn't much better. He misplaced his bunkers trying to wall you in, sent 1 marine (and didn't make more plus didn't make a depot), then lost the scvs, marine, and one of the bunkers without canceling it. Ugh.
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cool another roach rush. I'm guessing in the next month or so there will be a 13 roach rush. Can't wait to experience this in ladder
edit: oh nvm, this was designed for diamond levels lol. Just a question, is it right to teach people all these type of rushes to lower levels so that they can abuse them in ladder? Or would it be proper to encourage standard solid play?
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this will only work against terran with a really bad gamesense.
of course cheesy builds always somewhat rely on that, but any decent terran will scout that you are not expanding and will know that some sort of all-in is coming and bunker up and probably scan aswell to see what the hell the zerg is doing.
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If the roaches fail to do significant damage then the muta follow up is almost pointless. At the 10 min mark most terrans will have scanned your base at least once to see whats up not to mention they will have plenty of rines and most likely an engi bay already up or on the way.
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On February 22 2011 17:32 ShadowDrgn wrote:
You're not going to hold off a 2rax with 4 zerglings, and if Terran scouts that you have no natural, he's not going to get greedy. Some more replays would be nice because the game you won was against an atrociously bad player who got supply blocked at 19 before he even started a depot.
edit: I added a 3rd replay that I forgot about (the first game I tried this).
vs Michael vs ScoobZ (win vs 2-rax aggression)
No terran in his right mind is going to start making bunkers inside zerg's base if he hasn't expanded.
The greediest you'll get is bunkering the bottom (or top?) of the ramp, which will be crushed by roaches.
Roaches here come out in plenty of time to deal with pretty much all 2-rax aggression. The 4 zerglings are for scouting/delay.
The first roaches are out by 4:45-4:50, and if you are attacking at this time, you don't have more than 3-4 marines, which is far from enough to do any real damage to a queen and a couple lings.
In my experience, if ever there is no expansion, it's assumed there's some 1-base shenanigans going on, but the zerglings don't let you know this without burning a scan. If you push with your marines/scv, they will all die. If you don't push (what I'd recommend), then there's nothing to worry about on zerg's end.
But yeah I'll try and post more as soon as I can.
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To me this build just sounds like a late standard newbie's roach rush which will just get owned by either the opponent scouting the warren or roaches, or that since the zerg's on one base, some other all-in thing like banelings, and will build 2-3 bunkers and a bunch of ownage (be it marauders, banshees, marines+ups+medivac)
I might not be visualizing this right, but even 7RR can get scouted and quite easily kicked in the ass. Terran has comsat, and even without comsat they can see if you're not expanding unless they are bad.
While the muta transition is nice, it can't get many mutas out, and takes time to get, which offers the opportunity for a counter-attack before all or any mutas are ready, which will either damage you enough to keep the game even, or outright loose the game before you can even attack with them. Even without muchdamage dealt, the mutas will be scouted and can be easily dealt with.
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On February 22 2011 17:47 Xapti wrote:
To me this build just sounds like a late standard newbie's roach rush which will just get owned by either the opponent scouting the warren or roaches, or that since the zerg's on one base, some other all-in thing like banelings, and will build 2-3 bunkers and a bunch of ownage (be it marauders, banshees, marines+ups+medivac)
I might not be visualizing this right, but even 7RR can get scouted and quite easily kicked in the ass. Terran has comsat, and even without comsat they can see if you're not expanding unless they are bad.
While the muta transition is nice, it can't get many mutas out, and takes time to get, which offers the opportunity for a counter-attack before all or any mutas are ready, which will either damage you enough to keep the game even, or outright loose the game before you can even attack with them. Even without muchdamage dealt, the mutas will be scouted and can be easily dealt with.
Okay, well first, there's nothing to stop the terran from scanning zerg's base. However, there is a bit of higher-level decision-making that is required:
- Terran scouts with SCV, sees pool, lots of workers, no gas, maybe a queen and 2-4 lings, then it dies unless it left.
- At 3:30, Terran can do one of three things:
a) MULE calldown immediately (99% of the time that's what happens because the scouting SCV has JUST died)
b) Scan immediately (will reveal double gas and a warren)
c) Save energy and scan at 4:00-4:30 (will reveal double gas and warren as well as stockpiled larva.
- If the Terran chooses A, the only time he can now get information about what Z is doing is by doing one of the following two options:
a) 2-rax aggression, and all of the marines/scvs/bunkers will die for negative return in exchange.
b) scan at 5:00, revealing double gas, warren, slightly low drone count, and roaches in production/hatching.
However, given the information earned by the initial scouting, and being that 2-rax is generally an extremely safe opening, Terran can logically opt to be greedy and call down mules, as well as do whatever he does after 2-raxing.
This is completely different from 7RR, as the 7RR can easily be scouted by the initial SCV, allowing ample and easy counter. While this build is very beatable by simply scanning, most terrans won't bother to burn the scan that soon due to the sacrifice in economy, and this lower-level decision making (generally up to master league) is what this strat is centered around.
There is no opportunity whatsoever for a counter-attack, as the armies won't have finished trading until around 9 minutes. If the terran moves out, he loses all his SCVs. If he teched to mech and/or marauders, he dies, and if he just made a lot of marines or expanded or whatever, it goes to a standard game (since the next step is expanding).
After the roach exchange, if the terran doesn't die it's EXTREMELY unlikely that he's going to burn a scan on the zerg's main, especially if he's just lost some SCV's and let his macro slip during the battle.
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On February 22 2011 17:32 ShadowDrgn wrote:
You're not going to hold off a 2rax with 4 zerglings, and if Terran scouts that you have no natural, he's not going to get greedy. Some more replays would be nice because the game you won was against an atrociously bad player who got supply blocked at 19 before he even started a depot.
EDIT: Guy you lost against wasn't much better. He misplaced his bunkers trying to wall you in, sent 1 marine (and didn't make more plus didn't make a depot), then lost the scvs, marine, and one of the bunkers without canceling it. Ugh.
Click the name of the game he lost. That was against a 3100 masters player. I'm 100000% sure he's better than you. This build should be the standard for ZvT.
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added another replay against a mid-diamond player. In this case, he did scan and was adopting the appropriate counter (and my rush was about a minute late), but I was able to do enough economic damage with the roaches and force him to commit to a tech switch.
vs Michael vs duster (later roaches and mutas due to poor macro, win)
edit: here's another replay against master level 2-rax expand.
vs Trakky vs Michael (2-rax expand, roach/muta late, even after both exchanges, loss)
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Not so sure about this. The timing seems off. Doesn't the 2 rax timing get to your base at about 5 minutes? So by the time you build roaches, he's killed your lings and your queen, and built bunkers. :D
Also why not just grab drop and expo instead of mutas? 1 base muta is pretty much fail against everything. Might as well go get drop so you can burrow move around his base with elevator roaches for the novelty factor.
Don't take this comment to harshly or anything, the intent is to just point out some weaknesses.
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On February 23 2011 09:47 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Not so sure about this. The timing seems off. Doesn't the 2 rax timing get to your base at about 5 minutes? So by the time you build roaches, he's killed your lings and your queen, and built bunkers. :D
Also why not just grab drop and expo instead of mutas? 1 base muta is pretty much fail against everything. Might as well go get drop so you can burrow move around his base with elevator roaches for the novelty factor.
Don't take this comment to harshly or anything, the intent is to just point out some weaknesses.
at 5 minutes you already have 4 roaches out, and if he hits at 5 minutes, that means he left at 4:15-4:25, so he'll only have 4-5 marines at most. The delayed roach opener is really nothing special, and it's basically 100% safe against 2-rax aggression. You could definitely fit an expansion in there and only make 4-5 roaches, but I choose to go for double gas and use the hatch money on 6 more roaches, then attack.
The mutas are just to try and end the game if the roaches didn't work, but you could definitely expo and play standard.
The entire reason I worked on this build for refinement is to get some quick wins, because I found two builds that work well against Z and P up to master level but didn't have one for T, so I was averaging 3-4x game length against terran (and losing more). Since I play on 3 servers and practice with a group of mid-high master level guys, I'd rather try and ladder against similarly skilled players as quickly as possible.
This build is not designed to go more than 10 minutes because it attempts to end the game at 7:30 and at 10:00. If the T is pretty good, you're going to break even and have to play a normal game.
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On February 22 2011 17:29 Koshi wrote:
Can a Terran tell me when banshees or siege tanks come out?
And as follow up questions to OP. Why is this better than the 5rr? There you have 5roaches 16 speedlings and an expansion.
Second question: How many mutas pop out and when? I am actually thinking 7-8 and +1attack.
I can't watch the replay but I like to theorycraft about it while working.
Depending on how fast you go for it banshees can be out at ~6 min without significant eco loss. At this point you wont have cloak however. (Would have to go gas before rax for super early banshees)
I havent played against this but i somewhat doubt that this will kill a terran if he is not super greedy.
Yes 11 roaches are strong but if the terran has 2 filled bunkers or one with a tank behind it (doesnt need to have siege mode) iam pretty shure the rush will fail, especially if scvs are pulled for bunker repair. The mutas afterwards are going to be expected as pretty much every terran prepares for them at that time.
This is not a judgement though -i'll reserve that for the time after i have played against it- ,only what i expect to happen.
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Cheers for the build, I will try this out tonight (low plat), since the ling bling muta against terran was getting old.
Could I use the 11 roach opening, expand and switch to an infestor build? I tried a few times at following MrBitters skipping mutas for infestors but get owned early game. Or do you go mutas next to contain them if they have produced a lot of roach unfriendly units (like tanks or a lot of marauders)?
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On February 23 2011 10:29 zergrushkekeke wrote:
Cheers for the build, I will try this out tonight (low plat), since the ling bling muta against terran was getting old.
Could I use the 11 roach opening, expand and switch to an infestor build? I tried a few times at following MrBitters skipping mutas for infestors but get owned early game. Or do you go mutas next to contain them if they have produced a lot of roach unfriendly units (like tanks or a lot of marauders)?
The only reason to immediately switch to muta is to try and end the game.
You can definitely transition out immediately after sending the 11 roaches and just expand.
After you make 11 roaches, just pull 4-6 guys off gas and start droning up.
If you want to go all-in from the 11 roach mark, you can take 3 off gas (2 on one, 1 on the other) and then spam roaches, although I don't recommend it due to the travel distance.
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On February 23 2011 09:59 michaelhasanalias wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 09:47 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Not so sure about this. The timing seems off. Doesn't the 2 rax timing get to your base at about 5 minutes? So by the time you build roaches, he's killed your lings and your queen, and built bunkers. :D
Also why not just grab drop and expo instead of mutas? 1 base muta is pretty much fail against everything. Might as well go get drop so you can burrow move around his base with elevator roaches for the novelty factor.
Don't take this comment to harshly or anything, the intent is to just point out some weaknesses. at 5 minutes you already have 4 roaches out, and if he hits at 5 minutes, that means he left at 4:15-4:25, so he'll only have 4-5 marines at most. The delayed roach opener is really nothing special, and it's basically 100% safe against 2-rax aggression. You could definitely fit an expansion in there and only make 4-5 roaches, but I choose to go for double gas and use the hatch money on 6 more roaches, then attack. The mutas are just to try and end the game if the roaches didn't work, but you could definitely expo and play standard. The entire reason I worked on this build for refinement is to get some quick wins, because I found two builds that work well against Z and P up to master level but didn't have one for T, so I was averaging 3-4x game length against terran (and losing more). Since I play on 3 servers and practice with a group of mid-high master level guys, I'd rather try and ladder against similarly skilled players as quickly as possible. This build is not designed to go more than 10 minutes because it attempts to end the game at 7:30 and at 10:00. If the T is pretty good, you're going to break even and have to play a normal game.
If that's the case then I'll keep it in mind if I ever switch to zerg. 
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Sounds interesting, I'll give it a shot on ladder and see how it goes
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EPT
