EPT[G/D] TvP Bio into Mech - Page 6
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 00:59 Synystyr wrote: Would you consider a transition out of mech into air play once you've established a few bases and have a solid ground army? The Protoss would more than likely be going heavy ground with Immortal/Zealot/Colossi, so a few hidden starports at an expansion could pump out a decent amount of banshees and really catch the Protoss off guard, especially if you do multipronged harass. You could even bomb straight into his ground army with them, because he would be lacking sufficient AA. You wouldn't be able to be super aggressive in the transition period, but you'd have your tank line + Thors to help stagger pushes. Thoughts? hmmm very interesting i must say. you're right that you'd probably haveto be less agressive but if you get 2-3 ports that could do very well and the banshees could easily be part of your main army too and they are very mobile. i think that'd be perfect as a little variation, but i don't think it'd be too gamechanging since you get hellions and marauder drops to kill expos. still great idea, cheers  | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 25 2011 01:04 PredY wrote: hmmm very interesting i must say. you're right that you'd probably haveto be less agressive but if you get 2-3 ports that could do very well and the banshees could easily be part of your main army too and they are very mobile. i think that'd be perfect as a little variation, but i don't think it'd be too gamechanging since you get hellions and marauder drops to kill expos. still great idea, cheers Agreed, it'd just be an interesting twist on things, especially in a BoX situation where your opponent knows your play style well. Also, Starport play off 3-4 bases can let you easily transition into Battlecruisers if you so choose to, and I've always found them to be the ultimate unit against Protoss once you acquire Yamato. You already have the mobile harass force with marauder/hellion, but banshees can be mixed in quite well with the main army and can really help with sniping Colossi or Immortals quickly. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 01:14 Synystyr wrote: Agreed, it'd just be an interesting twist on things, especially in a BoX situation where your opponent knows your play style well. Also, Starport play off 3-4 bases can let you easily transition into Battlecruisers if you so choose to, and I've always found them to be the ultimate unit against Protoss once you acquire Yamato. You already have the mobile harass force with marauder/hellion, but banshees can be mixed in quite well with the main army and can really help with sniping Colossi or Immortals quickly. exactly, good for boX series. good stuff | ||
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huyNh
Canada366 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Don't forget the Raven so you can use Thors to kill every obs you force from him which indirectly hurts his immortal production. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 12:36 Techno wrote: I'm really skeptical about sticking on Bio till the third base. I find that bio really loses effectiveness near the end of 2 bases. So I would think to start transitioning to mech earlier. not sure about that. i think you could do 2rax only. then you probably can't fast expand but try to go for cloak banshee or hellion drop because you can't defend fast expansion with only 2rax. i'd imagine whe going for tech harassment on 1base, then getting your expo you could add just 1more rax and get thors earlier. that might work. but i'm not sure how that'd work out since bio on 2rax is never big enough to put enough pressure imo, you'll still have enough bio for drops obviously but you will never have enough bio to pressure, so it's basically late mech build with a little of bio and i don't know how fast would you be able take your 3rd base | ||
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gently-cz
Czech Republic16 Posts
With starport play your mineral dump is also usually marines, which dont cut it against HT/collosi. That is the reason I like mech better. Maybe some mix of hellion, thor and starport could work. PredY: I wanted to ask if it is better to go for attack upgrades first and not armor for your mech. My reasoning follows this thread [G] Critical Upgrade Analysis Also in your recent replays u go 1 marine, techlab into expand and add 2 more raxes with quite quick addons. How does it against 3gate voidray allin and to the BoX play. Wouldn't it be better to go 2 marines 1st, so he is unsure if you tech or go for marauder/fe play, then techlab and only 2 SCV's on gas, while you build your FE and additional raxes. I was experimenting with it and I find it works kind of better, u may have a little later factory, but not by much, just a question? | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On February 25 2011 19:48 gently-cz wrote: How does it against 3gate voidray allin I would assume it would de like every 1 rax fe since you dont swich into mech yet when the push comes, so it come down to micro and crysis managment and ofcorse scouting | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 19:48 gently-cz wrote: there was a vod I think of a game where jinro or tlo went 1 rax fe on shakuras against protoss and switched to heavy starport play with thors after taking third, but that was gg anyway. I like synyster's unit composition, but I find that it goes down to good storm and phoenix w observes micro. With starport play your mineral dump is also usually marines, which dont cut it against HT/collosi. That is the reason I like mech better. Maybe some mix of hellion, thor and starport could work. PredY: I wanted to ask if it is better to go for attack upgrades first and not armor for your mech. My reasoning follows this thread [G] Critical Upgrade Analysis Also in your recent replays u go 1 marine, techlab into expand and add 2 more raxes with quite quick addons. How does it against 3gate voidray allin and to the BoX play. Wouldn't it be better to go 2 marines 1st, so he is unsure if you tech or go for marauder/fe play, then techlab and only 2 SCV's on gas, while you build your FE and additional raxes. I was experimenting with it and I find it works kind of better, u may have a little later factory, but not by much, just a question? the armor would probably better as you say althought i don't think it makes such a difference i always make more marines once i get fair number of marauders so i'm never worried about 3gate voidray when fast expanding about the opening - there's no set opening for that build and you don't have to do it every game so i don't think you'd be that much predictable but it's always good to get the expo once the scouting probe is gone | ||
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Shlowpoke
United States102 Posts
On February 25 2011 20:18 PredY wrote: the armor would probably better as you say althought i don't think it makes such a difference Thor Damage +0 Attack: 30 x 2 = 60, 120, 180 (3 shots Gateway Units) +1 Attack: 33 x 2 = 66, 132, 198 +2 Attack: 36 x 2 = 72, 144, 216 (3 shots no-shield Immortal) +3 Attack: 39 x 2 = 78, 156, 234 (2-shots Zealots) Thors already 3-shot Zealots and Stalkers. Getting +1 and even +2 attack does not change the amount of shots it takes to kill a gateway unit even if Toss gets armor upgrades. When you get to +3, you start 2-shotting Zealots. I guess with +2 you also 3-shot shield-less Immortals. But the point is, getting +1 armor first is going to benefit you more immediately than attack upgrades. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 21:57 Shlowpoke wrote: Thor Damage +0 Attack: 30 x 2 = 60, 120, 180 (3 shots Gateway Units) +1 Attack: 33 x 2 = 66, 132, 198 +2 Attack: 36 x 2 = 72, 144, 216 (3 shots no-shield Immortal) +3 Attack: 39 x 2 = 78, 156, 234 (2-shots Zealots) Thors already 3-shot Zealots and Stalkers. Getting +1 and even +2 attack does not change the amount of shots it takes to kill a gateway unit even if Toss gets armor upgrades. When you get to +3, you start 2-shotting Zealots. I guess with +2 you also 3-shot shield-less Immortals. But the point is, getting +1 armor first is going to benefit you more immediately than attack upgrades. yeah i just checked that myself and +1 armor is better. good find | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
And I suppose its going to depend on how you use your Thors. You can either have them tank or you can have them as support. If you are using them defensively, you should be able to have them in the back and your old bio army in the front. If you are doing this, you might upgrade attack. It might not drop hits to kill from the Thor but it should save your bio some shots. You're also going to use tanks for support so the tank splash is always nice. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 25 2011 22:50 Antisocialmunky wrote: How does that scale with protoss upgrades. Its likely they'll start upgrading before you start upgrading your mech. And I suppose its going to depend on how you use your Thors. You can either have them tank or you can have them as support. If you are using them defensively, you should be able to have them in the back and your old bio army in the front. If you are doing this, you might upgrade attack. It might not drop hits to kill from the Thor but it should save your bio some shots. You're also going to use tanks for support so the tank splash is always nice. yeah i guess you can get armor upgrade if you plan to stay on thors for a longer time but probably tanks and hellions will benefit from +1 weapons more also today i had quite a success defending 2base 5gate pushes even without the first thor and without bunkers but i had to use scvs and was pretty close, so next time i rather get bunkers ^^ i feel a well executed 6gate push would be very hard to defend because theres no way you get the thor out, so you might want to get 4rax to get more units out. although how to scout the 6gate build in time i don't know.. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On February 26 2011 06:10 PredY wrote: yeah i guess you can get armor upgrade if you plan to stay on thors for a longer time but probably tanks and hellions will benefit from +1 weapons more also today i had quite a success defending 2base 5gate pushes even without the first thor and without bunkers but i had to use scvs and was pretty close, so next time i rather get bunkers ^^ i feel a well executed 6gate push would be very hard to defend because theres no way you get the thor out, so you might want to get 4rax to get more units out. although how to scout the 6gate build in time i don't know.. Do you have the replay of holding off the 5 Gate? It sounds pretty good if you can do the 'just barely' hold off | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On February 26 2011 06:29 Antisocialmunky wrote: Do you have the replay of holding off the 5 Gate? It sounds pretty good if you can do the 'just barely' hold off sure. i'm actually not sure how well he executed that because for months i did mech builds and i didnt meet any 5/6 gaters so i'm not experienced with that, would love if someone could tell me how well he did http://www.mediafire.com/?kyv2kjj1a69mgtb + Show Spoiler + this one is not precise because of proxy gate http://www.mediafire.com/?y2a39lpq0an1jv8 + Show Spoiler + this is a 5gate push, had to lift my expo and defend my ramp because i decided i'd do a drop meantime if those games are good example how to play vs 5gate i'd be glad to add them to the main post but as i said im not sure ^^ | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
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