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On March 02 2011 14:08 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The build I was trying to make work was something like - 2 Rax 3 Bunker Marine opening into a Mass Marine/Thor composition to push out to take a fast third (Somewhat like the 2 Thor push except to take a 3rd base instead of doing some sort of rush) into Viking/Hellion with Thors and a small number of tanks. Tanks and Vikings deter colossus while maxxing as quickly as possible and push out with 3 attack upgrade Thors before Toss gets carriers. However, I think Predy's style of play is probably better because its not based just on being able to expand extremely fast.
You really need to be able to get 6 gas for any sort of heavy mech play to work in this game.
Well you need 3 bases for any Thor heavy Mech.
Off of 4 gysers you can produce a constant 2 Tanks and 2 Vikings in addition to Hellions and marines. This is without Upgrades. But you don't really need constant Vikings leaving room for upgrades or 3 Factory Tanks rather then 2.
The thing is that a Third makes Mech exponentially stronger. But if your good with your harass you can mass on 2 base longer then you think.
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On March 02 2011 14:08 Antisocialmunky wrote:
The build I was trying to make work was something like - 2 Rax 3 Bunker Marine opening into a Mass Marine/Thor composition to push out to take a fast third (Somewhat like the 2 Thor push except to take a 3rd base instead of doing some sort of rush) into Viking/Hellion with Thors and a small number of tanks. Tanks and Vikings deter colossus while maxxing as quickly as possible and push out with 3 attack upgrade Thors before Toss gets carriers. However, I think Predy's style of play is probably better because its not based just on being able to expand extremely fast.
You really need to be able to get 6 gas for any sort of heavy mech play to work in this game.
I think going Marine/Thor/Banshee is most ideal in the mid game, I haven't lost a game where I was able to pull off Synystyr's build and gotten the composition, however the problem with that build is that sometimes you can't pull off the fast expand.
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I don't like Thor too much against protoss due to the mobility issue and cost. Maybe when I have a 3-4 base and can afford it. Quick question... with the income tab in replays, does the number below your mineral and gas represent the amount you rake per minute? On two base 4 geyser the number is about 450 vespene. So say I am on one factory tank, one starport for medivac/raven, that's 125/150 gas right there, so I have 175 gas left. I need gas for buildings and upgrade so I usually hold off on that second factory. That's why I am thinking 2-3 rax marauder (if he is ground heavy) and a second reactored starport.
One three base, I can add my additional factory (for tanks) and 2 more rax for maraud. If he is air heavy, I can stop maraud production, research the combat shield and switch to mass marines. This will free up gas, so I can add Thors on a third factory using the old tech labs from my barracks, which are now reactored. Maybe add ghost if he is temp heavy instead of Thor.
What do people think about that?
Also, how do seeker missles fair against protoss void play because I may give that a gander.
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Watching Huk's stream atm, he was playing an epic macro game on metalopolis where the terran beat him with a strong bio/thor build. Those thors are scary from a protoss POV, gateway units in small amounts really dont even scratch them.
Been playing with it myself and I'm pretty sure thors are the way to go in this matchup. I rarely lose if I manage to get a 150+ supply ball going. Might try to post some replays if I get some good games done.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
Hello, PredY. I am 3500 ms league, eu terran and I love mech soooooooo much. Last month it became too hard to play goody style with only defence so I tryed to find some new ways in TvZ and TvP. Ive been very interested in your style, especially since I tryed something like this a lot of time ago, but I have a trouble. After some games (10-15 maybe) with your build I faced one P push which I dont know how to defence, here is the replay: http://replayfu.com/r/ZCpMZd
Problem for me is that I cant just push it after exp since P got imm+fast colossus, I cant just defence with bunker/thor/viking because opponent doing a lot of stalkers which are insanely good agains bunkers and viking.. any suggestions from you?
p.s. sry for some unmanner it was a bad day.. smth like 6-8 looses in a row >_<
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I'm not Predy but your play looked exactly like mine, and I've been having problems with the protoss 2 base timing pushes too.
I think the best reaction is to simply actively scout his composition, like all the damn time. If I suspect the 3-4 colossus push, I do not rush to thors, but only put gas into vikings as if it was a regular MMM-build. Only once I have a "safe" number of vikings (at least 6, preferrably more), I can start putting gas in thors. If I scout heavy gateway play and/or templar tech, I will switch to thors much earlier, but against heavy robo vikings are essential.
Also, I think you went a little too marine-heavy. Marauders would've been alot more effective against that push.
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Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit)
I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him.
I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar.
I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy.
I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor.
I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting 
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Russian Federation367 Posts
On March 09 2011 02:34 Bagi wrote:
I'm not Predy but your play looked exactly like mine, and I've been having problems with the protoss 2 base timing pushes too.
I think the best reaction is to simply actively scout his composition, like all the damn time. If I suspect the 3-4 colossus push, I do not rush to thors, but only put gas into vikings as if it was a regular MMM-build. Only once I have a "safe" number of vikings (at least 6, preferrably more), I can start putting gas in thors. If I scout heavy gateway play and/or templar tech, I will switch to thors much earlier, but against heavy robo vikings are essential.
Also, I think you went a little too marine-heavy. Marauders would've been alot more effective against that push.
ok, I will try to be more flexible at choosing what I need now more thors or vikings.
p.s. And yeah - I got some troubles with supply, so maybe I had too less units than I could.
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Ive been experimenting with a thor/ghost army composition, and while this works wonders against protoss ground units (as you dont need hellions to be able to beat chargelots, and thors are a bit more mobile than tanks), thors kinda suck when opp gets air, as it messes up the attack priority of the thor. E.g. was in a 200/200 battle my opp had gateway units+ immortals + 10 1/0 Vrs. I had 10+ thors, 2-4 ghosts, and 17 1/1 Vikings. My thos were upgraded 2/2 to his 2/1 ground force. Even though I emped like 80% of his army I lost the battle as my thors wasted time shotting the Vrs. Im not sure how good thors are late game when he mixes in VRs or perhaps carriers with his ground force.
Do any1 have a solution to this problem or do they just get like 1-3 thors + lots of tanks?
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On March 09 2011 03:24 Hider wrote:
Ive been experimenting with a thor/ghost army composition, and while this works wonders against protoss ground units (as you dont need hellions to be able to beat chargelots, and thors are a bit more mobile than tanks), thors kinda suck when opp gets air, as it messes up the attack priority of the thor. E.g. was in a 200/200 battle my opp had gateway units+ immortals + 10 1/0 Vrs. I had 10+ thors, 2-4 ghosts, and 17 1/1 Vikings. My thos were upgraded 2/2 to his 2/1 ground force. Even though I emped like 80% of his army I lost the battle as my thors wasted time shotting the Vrs. Im not sure how good thors are late game when he mixes in VRs or perhaps carriers with his ground force.
Do any1 have a solution to this problem or do they just get like 1-3 thors + lots of tanks?
Can't you like manually aim at ground units and let the vikings/marines/ghosts deal with the air.
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it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots.
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On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots.
I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units.
Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots. I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units. Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus.
yeah that happened to me a while ago. i just did medivacs asap i don't think there's anything else you can do. problem is you have 3rax already so you can't skip a rax for a factory but you can cut the bio production to get medivacs asap but still puts you behind. that's why i like no gas expo with marine and bunkers as they can't do that. unfortunately not possible on all maps.
i actually think collosi are very good response to that build since you can kill the voids with marines/vikings quite easily and Canon immortals with thors.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit) I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him. I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar. I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy. I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor. I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting
i don't like getting infantry upgrades anymore but put all the gas into marauder/thor/mech upgr/vikings
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do you have any replays of doing bio FE into mech TvP vs a phoenix opener? possibly even proxy stargate phoenix?
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On March 09 2011 05:24 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots. I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units. Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus. yeah that happened to me a while ago. i just did medivacs asap i don't think there's anything else you can do. problem is you have 3rax already so you can't skip a rax for a factory but you can cut the bio production to get medivacs asap but still puts you behind. that's why i like no gas expo with marine and bunkers as they can't do that. unfortunately not possible on all maps. i actually think collosi are very good response to that build since you can kill the voids with marines/vikings quite easily and Canon immortals with thors. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit) I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him. I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar. I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy. I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor. I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting i don't like getting infantry upgrades anymore but put all the gas into marauder/thor/mech upgr/vikings
Well IMO collosus is not that good a choice imo as it makes the threat of an air switch much weaker, and thors are pretty good vs collosus and absolutely sux when one add in vikings. On the other hand immortals are fine vs thors if you just have enough of them. Even with the use of strike cannons, well positioned immortals are cost effective vs thors. And when mixing up a few VRs your thors just sux (from my experience). Anyway do you have any replays where a toss tries to go for this kind of composition as an reaction to you transition to mech.
I would like to see if you could beat a 6gate all in as well?
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On March 09 2011 06:01 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 05:24 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots. I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units. Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus. yeah that happened to me a while ago. i just did medivacs asap i don't think there's anything else you can do. problem is you have 3rax already so you can't skip a rax for a factory but you can cut the bio production to get medivacs asap but still puts you behind. that's why i like no gas expo with marine and bunkers as they can't do that. unfortunately not possible on all maps. i actually think collosi are very good response to that build since you can kill the voids with marines/vikings quite easily and Canon immortals with thors. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit) I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him. I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar. I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy. I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor. I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting i don't like getting infantry upgrades anymore but put all the gas into marauder/thor/mech upgr/vikings Well IMO collosus is not that good a choice imo as it makes the threat of an air switch much weaker, and thors are pretty good vs collosus and absolutely sux when one add in vikings. On the other hand immortals are fine vs thors if you just have enough of them. Even with the use of strike cannons, well positioned immortals are cost effective vs thors. And when mixing up a few VRs your thors just sux (from my experience). Anyway do you have any replays where a toss tries to go for this kind of composition as an reaction to you transition to mech. I would like to see if you could beat a 6gate all in as well?
possible. i hold off 5gate before but you can't ever get into supply block and you have to have 3+ bunkers and scvs ready to repair, which is tricky because you have to know it's coming and it's hard to scout
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On March 09 2011 06:01 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 05:24 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots. I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units. Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus. yeah that happened to me a while ago. i just did medivacs asap i don't think there's anything else you can do. problem is you have 3rax already so you can't skip a rax for a factory but you can cut the bio production to get medivacs asap but still puts you behind. that's why i like no gas expo with marine and bunkers as they can't do that. unfortunately not possible on all maps. i actually think collosi are very good response to that build since you can kill the voids with marines/vikings quite easily and Canon immortals with thors. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit) I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him. I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar. I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy. I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor. I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting i don't like getting infantry upgrades anymore but put all the gas into marauder/thor/mech upgr/vikings Well IMO collosus is not that good a choice imo as it makes the threat of an air switch much weaker, and thors are pretty good vs collosus and absolutely sux when one add in vikings. On the other hand immortals are fine vs thors if you just have enough of them. Even with the use of strike cannons, well positioned immortals are cost effective vs thors. And when mixing up a few VRs your thors just sux (from my experience). Anyway do you have any replays where a toss tries to go for this kind of composition as an reaction to you transition to mech. I would like to see if you could beat a 6gate all in as well?
I'm not sure about the extended Thermal Lance timing but you can strike cannon(Thors outranged unupgraded colossus)/marauder them down without it. By the time thermal lance is out, you should have a few vikings or tanks to force coloussus back so they can't range you.
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On March 09 2011 08:50 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 06:01 Hider wrote:On March 09 2011 05:24 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 03:43 huyNh wrote:
it's not easy manually shooting units in a 200/200 battle. thors by itself on the ground, unless comes in a ridic critical mass, will die to zealot/immortal/voidrays. i find against this combo, you need some bio/ghost along with it to deal with the zealots. I was getting ghosts as well. Mostly to deal with immortal. But anyway this combo did really well vs all ground units. Anyways I watched predys games against insos, and I felt like Inso was not responding very well. Would like to test predys opening vs a 3gate expand where he can basically deny your expo by forcefielding your ramp forever till you get medis. Do you have any plan on how to deal with that other than getting quite a lot behind. I think one needs to scout a lot to be sure they are not 5/6 gating on 2 bases as that is basically impossible to counter with only 2-3 bunkers whicle teching up meanwhile. Would love to see replays with Predy playing against better players ( I def. think his macro was a level or 2 above Insos as well), who has equal mechanics and responds better to what Predy is doing. (like getting getting a few VRs vs thors with some immortals instead of Collosus. yeah that happened to me a while ago. i just did medivacs asap i don't think there's anything else you can do. problem is you have 3rax already so you can't skip a rax for a factory but you can cut the bio production to get medivacs asap but still puts you behind. that's why i like no gas expo with marine and bunkers as they can't do that. unfortunately not possible on all maps. i actually think collosi are very good response to that build since you can kill the voids with marines/vikings quite easily and Canon immortals with thors. + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 03:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Wow, haha, I think I accidentally created a similar build on my own just by trying shit out alot.(lost like 15 TvPs in a row doing crazy shit) I originally went 3 rax TTR super safely into expand while getting armory and starport around the time my 2nd orbital finishes, I don't add any more barracks but 2 factories pumping thors. Once I felt colossi might be out I added reactor on the starport. I was ahead in that game after I held a 4 warpgate but I was still convinced by the strongness of the composition when I attacked him. I haven't had time to really perfect it but it seems quite alot similar. I'd like to hear more closely about upgrading from Predy. I feel that bio armor isn't quite as useful because marines still die to two colossi attack regardless of armor. So I normally try a timing push just when I get 0-2 on Thors and 2-0 on infantry. It makes sense to me that the thors are there to soak the damage while bio deals it. And your bio dies to the protoss AoE regardless of armor. I also got owned by a push with 2 hallucinated Colossi in it. I was just about to get my 2nd thor out and I think i could have easily held it had I not been so surprised by the colossi( I had just scanned only his immortals)So I died because I immediately tried to focus down the colossi. I guess nothing else helps here but better scouting i don't like getting infantry upgrades anymore but put all the gas into marauder/thor/mech upgr/vikings Well IMO collosus is not that good a choice imo as it makes the threat of an air switch much weaker, and thors are pretty good vs collosus and absolutely sux when one add in vikings. On the other hand immortals are fine vs thors if you just have enough of them. Even with the use of strike cannons, well positioned immortals are cost effective vs thors. And when mixing up a few VRs your thors just sux (from my experience). Anyway do you have any replays where a toss tries to go for this kind of composition as an reaction to you transition to mech. I would like to see if you could beat a 6gate all in as well? I'm not sure about the extended Thermal Lance timing but you can strike cannon(Thors outranged unupgraded colossus)/marauder them down without it. By the time thermal lance is out, you should have a few vikings or tanks to force coloussus back so they can't range you.
I dont think i made my self clear. Thors are fine vs collosus, and with vikings + thors collosus actually sux.
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While the +1 vehicle weapons does not benefit the thors when you are pushing with them, it is important to double armory so your tanks have an upgrade advantage. The thor benefits hugely from the +1 vehicle armor, especially with a handful of scv's to repair, and your tanks need those weapons upgrades as quickly as possible. Having your tank ball hit critical mass when you are 2/2 or 3/3 because you invested in a second armory is totally worth it if you intend to follow up the thor push with mass tanks.
The thors only really require 0/1 and the cannon to make the push. A 1base thor all-in is quite feasible also. Wait for 2 thors, vehicle armor 1, and the thor cannon. You then bring nearly all your scv's to repair the thors and make bunkers for your marines.
Another possible modification to this general idea, which is quite different, is get your armory for vehicle weapons, but open with a ghost+MM push off 2 bases, and then use the time you just bought to take your third and build tanks. I am skeptical of this style because bio is quite predictable in the current metagame. The push is late enough that colossi could obliterate you. Where thors can simply cannon the colossi, ghosts will be useless. However if the protoss scouts factories and reacts "correctly", ie with an extra expansion, or perhaps immortals or air, this push would be the perfect countermove. The possibility of doing this push seems more useful than actually doing it- the thor push seems stronger in all circumstances, but requires a different response from the protoss.
The sort of play I think should be avoided is the "turtle and build 1000 tanks" style. Tanks in SC2 have very hard counters available for the protoss. Worst case scenario they can take the entire map and build carriers, against which there is no truly effective answer from terran as goliaths are gone. Vikings can get the job done, but require starports and are paper airplanes (0 armor is a huge difference against carriers). The protoss cannot be allowed to do this, so some push that hits before the 1000 tanks can be built seems necessary.
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Denmark66 Posts
So Predy, is this build still good? Found any obvious weak spots?
Been using it a bit seems to work quite well
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EPT
