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+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 13:15 captainwaffles wrote:
I tried getting a reactor on the starport, its totally awesome if they get colossus, the Vikings and Tanks are so good together, here are the reps: [url blocked]
I wonder, if they go HT/Chargelot/Immortal, would getting a ghost academy instead of the reactor be good, maybe a 4th rax? Ghosts are expensive in gas- I just did the math, you should be able to afford everything but your factories would be delayed by a lot. Would have to bunker up I think, til' the facts get up.
when i faced fast HTs i always got ghosts before switching to mech i think that's the best choice
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 14:23 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Have you tried a Mass Thor composition with fewer tanks, PredY?
In my experience, Thors have a tendency to roll completely through Protoss armies if you have a slight advantage in units or with EMP. Even more so than tanks to some extent. Thor balls are literally steam rollers.
thors are really good and i'm gonna try some stuff with them, i still like upgraded tanks more since they have splash damage but i love to use thor to tank some damage
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 14:49 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
I've encountered a big problem with my strategy against toss when I'm doing a 1 rax FE. The thing is, is when protoss get 2 gas at the start and they get on the offense, then they just forcefield my ramp preventing me from coming out. how can I prevent this? should I stop the macro to save for bunkers? I feel like if I don't continuously pump units he can just break my defense. how do I stop this? if a replay is needed pls reply
edit: I've tried laddering my units out of my base with medivacs but it's pretty risky as he can just walk into my base and forcefiled me out. I want to figure out a way to prevent this without falling too behind because as I am stuck in my base he's expanding and teching and I'm on 2 orbitals in one base getting mined out. Should I just stick to a 2 rax FE instead?
hm yeah when getting forcefielded your ramp you are slowly falling behind since you don't use your advantage of expo and your medivac tech is late. i like to get the expo right on the natural and rather get bunkers and defend with scvs because i hate that as well 
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Oh man!!! I'm at work and I'ma bout to crap my pants in anticipation of watching all theese 3500+ masters TvP replays! Awsome thread!
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You can max with Thors faster off less infrastructure so it may be feasible to build equal parts tanks and Thors. Tank splash is quite good but the +6 that Thors get each upgrade of untyped damage is pretty sweet. It also semi-counters any sort of air shenanigans or warp prism bulldog(lol?).
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Heh, so the theory craft does work.
I just didn't expect it to be possible that you could ever have enough Thors to shutdown Carriers. 0.0
Well anyway, if you want another idea to try out if you run into mass immortals:
+ Show Spoiler +
Go mass Thor/Marine into Thor/hellion. Use the hellion to tanks the Protoss army Immortals have notoriously poor range so you can literally shove so many hellions in their face that they can't actually get into range. Hellions tank better than most Terran units in TvP due to their lightness and they will in all likelyhood be doing massive splash to take the shields off Protoss balls. Heck, if you have enough you can immediately de-shield immortals.
Looks like you did that anyway.
I'm curious though how this fairs against not colossus openings ?
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I'm not sure if it's actually related to these replays, but right after I downloaded some of them a virus appeared on my computer pretending to be the windows antivirus software, shutting down my computer and demanding that I tell them my credit card details in order to remove a bunch of supposed threats. I'm not accusing you of trying to take my money, you being a respectable member of the community and all, but I just felt I should throw that out there.
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On February 24 2011 08:28 Ezekyle wrote:I'm not sure if it's actually related to these replays, but right after I downloaded some of them a virus appeared on my computer pretending to be the windows antivirus software, shutting down my computer and demanding that I tell them my credit card details in order to remove a bunch of supposed threats. I'm not accusing you of trying to take my money, you being a respectable member of the community and all, but I just felt I should throw that out there.
Must be from something else. Those files are only SC2Replays, nothing else.
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Ah yes! these reps were awesome! I noticed there were a lot of times where the Thor saved your ass, imagine if you had 1 tank instead...I definitely like the thor first more than massing tanks ASAP.
I think this is way all terrans will play eventually, its just so solid. I would like to hear some top (high on ladder or tournament winners) protoss and terran players thoughts on this.
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This is solid? Relying on throwing away your SCV (meaning you have so much min banked for CC's that the opponent hasn't forced be converted) to gain a 30-40 food advantage. No use of EMP. Protoss throwing away his maxed army in first game (and continuing to pump colossi after scouting thor).
Let's ignore the fact that a good P could potentially run circles around your army, he can simply outproduce you with warpgate cycles against thor cycles.
A game that demonstrates the viability of camping 4 base against 4 base vs P's that don't really know what to do doesn't illustrate anything.
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I'm not gonna sit here and theorycraft about things that could of happened. The game isn't broken man, of course a toss could win if he played smart! But you're probably right about the SCV thing, if a toss is harassing and poking at expos and what not, sacrificing scvs wouldn't be a good idea. But if a game goes long enough (if its been relatively even), Terran should throw some scv's away for more army. Its good to have more units than your opponent..
Likewise, playing Marine/Tank in TvZ is really *solid* it doesn't mean terran can never lose, or zerg can never win.
To bottom line it, teching up to deal with the protoss deathball is pretty solid, better than making MMM all game and crossing your fingers that they can't defend multiple locations at once.
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On February 24 2011 16:13 naventus wrote:
This is solid? Relying on throwing away your SCV (meaning you have so much min banked for CC's that the opponent hasn't forced be converted) to gain a 30-40 food advantage. No use of EMP. Protoss throwing away his maxed army in first game (and continuing to pump colossi after scouting thor).
Let's ignore the fact that a good P could potentially run circles around your army, he can simply outproduce you with warpgate cycles against thor cycles.
A game that demonstrates the viability of camping 4 base against 4 base vs P's that don't really know what to do doesn't illustrate anything.
i don't know if it's solid. what's a solid TvP build then? (LOL)
i don't rely throwing away my SCVs, i just use sc2 mechanics to make my build stronger.
about EMP - you're right i didn't really use that. i write about getting ghosts in every gametho . that's just my imperfection, sorry about that.
"a good P can run circles around my army" no he can't. not on those maps with 10 watch towers. you know thors don't have to siege they are pretty mobile
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Why open bio if you want to go mech? seems counter intuitive. I siege expand every game and my TvP is extremely strong (I inhouse against masters level toss regularly)
I transition into marine tank blueflame hellions and 2-3 ghosts (if they go HT or Robo route, you dont even need vikings to kill colossi. Only time I get vikings is if they MASS colossi or go stargate)
Note that I literally harass the toss every minute with BFHs though
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Great guide! Currently, I play a sky-terran style. I'll definitely study your guide if I decide to try out mech play.
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On February 24 2011 17:19 Griffith` wrote:
Why open bio if you want to go mech? seems counter intuitive. I siege expand every game and my TvP is extremely strong (I inhouse against masters level toss regularly)
I transition into marine tank blueflame hellions and 2-3 ghosts (if they go HT or Robo route, you dont even need vikings to kill colossi. Only time I get vikings is if they MASS colossi or go stargate)
Note that I literally harass the toss every minute with BFHs though
i open bio because i try to combine strenghs of bio early mid game and of mech late game. also the build is not that easy to read from protoss since you can stick with bio all game or just add a factory for blue flame hellions with bio
i just offer that as a new option, not to replace other styles
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predy if i may point out in the first replay you got 3 rax only 1 with a tech lab why not get a reactor on 1 of the rax and maybe put up a bunker?? it seems safer to me
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On February 24 2011 18:01 Chrumchrum wrote:
predy if i may point out in the first replay you got 3 rax only 1 with a tech lab why not get a reactor on 1 of the rax and maybe put up a bunker?? it seems safer to me
i actually just forgot to get add-ons :D
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Them thors are really effective in the time period where the protoss army will just faceroll a terran bio army. Even like 1-2 in the transition period are soo soo useful.
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Wow, the new reps with the Thor as a stepping stone look a LOT safer than your first bunch of reps. It seems like Thors are strong as soon as they come out, unlike Tanks which seem to need a medium-large number of them to be effective. Plus you don't need to worry about the air switch as much. If there was ever a solid transition from bio in the midgame, this is it.
Awesome play, thanks for sharing. ^^
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On February 24 2011 21:33 Shlowpoke wrote:
Wow, the new reps with the Thor as a stepping stone look a LOT safer than your first bunch of reps. It seems like Thors are strong as soon as they come out, unlike Tanks which seem to need a medium-large number of them to be effective. Plus you don't need to worry about the air switch as much. If there was ever a solid transition from bio in the midgame, this is it.
Awesome play, thanks for sharing. ^^
yeah i still need to face 2base allin to see how it fares but i really like thors..
little bump for those who missed new reps
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Would you consider a transition out of mech into air play once you've established a few bases and have a solid ground army? The Protoss would more than likely be going heavy ground with Immortal/Zealot/Colossi, so a few hidden starports at an expansion could pump out a decent amount of banshees and really catch the Protoss off guard, especially if you do multipronged harass. You could even bomb straight into his ground army with them, because he would be lacking sufficient AA.
You wouldn't be able to be super aggressive in the transition period, but you'd have your tank line + Thors to help stagger pushes. Thoughts?
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EPT
