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If you are so kind I would also be very grateful to know your reasoning behind doing the bio into mech transition instead of a standard opening (FE, Hellion drop, Banshee, whatever) into mech transition, because I'm also trying out a lot but at my level of play (~3,2k masters) there are a lot of obvious bumps (macro, micro, everything) and I'm often times not really sure what was bad and what was good about what I did, because there are so many possibilities for the protoss to react once it gets into the midgame and I rarely got time to play more than 5 or 6 games per week, and of course it's just not very high level.
It would just be really really cool if you could talk a bit about your thoughts on the different options you have as a terran once you hit the mid game stages if you want to get a mech composition eventually. I think the reasons why you are prefering the bio into mech transition at the moment are explained very well in your first posting.  But it would be cool to hear what your thoughts are on mech mid game pushes (3 or 4 factory on 2 base) or other options (massive hellion harass instead of bio pressure) and what you dislike about it.
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On February 20 2011 07:32 Bommes wrote:If you are so kind I would also be very grateful to know your reasoning behind doing the bio into mech transition instead of a standard opening (FE, Hellion drop, Banshee, whatever) into mech transition, because I'm also trying out a lot but at my level of play (~3,2k masters) there are a lot of obvious bumps (macro, micro, everything) and I'm often times not really sure what was bad and what was good about what I did, because there are so many possibilities for the protoss to react once it gets into the midgame and I rarely got time to play more than 5 or 6 games per week, and of course it's just not very high level. It would just be really really cool if you could talk a bit about your thoughts on the different options you have as a terran once you hit the mid game stages if you want to get a mech composition eventually. I think the reasons why you are prefering the bio into mech transition at the moment are explained very well in your first posting. But it would be cool to hear what your thoughts are on mech mid game pushes (3 or 4 factory on 2 base) or other options (massive hellion harass instead of bio pressure) and what you dislike about it.
well i'm a big fan of mech, and for months i was the one defending pure mech play vs protoss over here on tl forums (a tough task indeed). what i used to try was a fast 3base mech, kind of like in brood war, where you got siege or mines expand and with little amount of factories you'd take your 3rd base and then boom the production. That unfortunately didn't go too well obviously, especialy because you can't pressure with mines. a protoss who sees you do pure mech build should always get fast 3rd and mass up a big force countering yours (zealot, immortal etc), beccause it's hard to push in mid game.
lately though, i was doing a 2 base pure mech build that involves fast expansion and no starport, but instead i get 4 factories (2tech lab 2 reactor) (you can actually get a starport too just for medivacs) and harass a lot with hellions while building tanks/thors and get a ghost too, then do a big 2base push which was very strong.
i still felt pure mech was very difficult to pull off as you can't harass efficiently once protoss gets good sim city with buildings, but i'm not saying it's not viable. I was able to win a lot of games with pure mech, be it either 3base macro style or 2base push.
i found out that if protoss goes fast expansion you can go mass hellions and just trade them for probes over and over again. anyway i like bio into mech a bit more as it feels more safe and generally "better" tho i dont want to discourage from going full mech since it's still very powerful when played out well. definatelly try out that 2base push
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
predy! we played for meteor garden on sc2gg
I've actually been trying to do something very similar for a long time but I couldn't survive that 2 base P push with lots of colo. Thanks for your reps 
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I don't do this particular build but I have to say that I feel bio into mech is in the long run the only real viable TvP build. Opening mech or 1-1-1 leaves you too vulnerable to a lot of lot of allinish shit and puts you at a disadvantage against a very macro heavy opening while bio deals with this it gets raped in the later stages of the game. Bio into ghostmech and playing your air composition reactively for the win.
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Hey Predy, I've been working on something similar on the US server, I'll just let my replays speak for themselves, Tell me what you think in comparison to your style and I'll do vice versa when I've watch all of your replays (only seen one as of me posting this).
[url blocked]
Just off the top of my head, I don't think getting a 4th rax is ideal, or getting upgrades from the engibay, If you cut those two things you can get your mech rolling a lot faster, but what do I know lol, I'll have a more educated post after I watch all of your reps.
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Haven't watched through the reps yet, but awesome post nonetheless! The idea of a transition into mech once you have your third is something ive also been thinking about but I haven't really gotten into the whole theorycrafting part, and the few games i've tried I've had sick problems during the actual transition phase.
I'll look through the reps and comment further, gogo predy!
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actually I did read the post and I did watch the replays and in the 3 games I watched you got killed 3 times for the exact same reason.
You have bio production capabilities, but you said it yourself in the OP you cut bio to get the factories up. You can't support Bio AND Mech production at the same time off 2 bases, so while youre transitioning you're basically sitting on the army you had while switching, while the tosses army and economy is constantly growing.
Which leads to my point that he can just throw food at you and hammer your measly army into the ground.
If you want to switch into mechanical units after having opened up with bio you need the economy to throw down the factories and start producing instantly so that your powering up doesn't lose steam.
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i would like to suggest a simple bio mech opening that my terran friend owns me with all day long. It is a simple 1/1 fast seige into expo opening, it holds a 4 gate and a 6 gate so you know it is a really safe build and allows him to take safer expos that are more open to harass. As the game goes on you free up you bio supply by sacing it and you can make a decent tech switch. Played a few games vs it and i will say it is quite hard to handle especially if you let him seige up. so just a suggestion and i will say it is 10x harder to handle than pure bio especially since you can still do drops ect but you have like 10 tanks and a few thors.
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I really like your style of play, I actually started doing a variation of this when I caught a couple of your replays a week or so ago against mnmvader i believe and it's working very well for me
Very well written guide and thx for reps
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Nice thread. I just tried this out in the lower leagues and after 40minutes the protoss opponent just gg'd for no apparent reason, lol. Anyway.. Im new kinda semi-new so this is pretty awesome as this seems to work. Well, what doesnt work in the lower levels..
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On February 20 2011 08:36 meRz wrote:Haven't watched through the reps yet, but awesome post nonetheless! The idea of a transition into mech once you have your third is something ive also been thinking about but I haven't really gotten into the whole theorycrafting part, and the few games i've tried I've had sick problems during the actual transition phase. I'll look through the reps and comment further, gogo predy!
Me too except I've been doing variation of the marine/Thor push except super fast expand and harass with hellions.
Glad someone is getting success with a super fast bio expand onto 3 base. That's definitely how this match up is going in the future. I personally want to figure out a redux of the tornado terran style.
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Thank you so much for writing this. I also have been having a lot of trouble in TvP, and thought your playstyle was very interesting and strong the moment I saw it, but I never spent the time to figure it out.
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terran can play with MMM + siege tanks ... that is only think they can add... but agean terran if go mecha it dont simply work agenst good players....
Maby when HOTS arive terran mecha will be standar agenst all races...but now in WOL i think it dont work like it should..
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2011 08:30 captainwaffles wrote:
Hey Predy, I've been working on something similar on the US server, I'll just let my replays speak for themselves, Tell me what you think in comparison to your style and I'll do vice versa when I've watch all of your replays (only seen one as of me posting this).
[url blocked]
Just off the top of my head, I don't think getting a 4th rax is ideal, or getting upgrades from the engibay, If you cut those two things you can get your mech rolling a lot faster, but what do I know lol, I'll have a more educated post after I watch all of your reps.
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hi, sorry i haven't responded earlier but it was night here
i watched the replays, and i liked it. you're right about E-bay upgrades, those aren't needed.
3 or 4 rax? well i don't know that myself . in one of the reps i posted, on xelnaga, i do 3rax with fast tanks. it's one of the older replays and since then i started doing 4rax and later tech because if you build tanks from 1 factory it takes a lot of time to build a decent sized tank force and meantime the protoss will most probably attack you and then you have 1/3 less marauders (2rax tech lab instead of 3) and it's very difficult to hold it off. BUT i've been thinking that 3rax and factory for thors could work much better, because you get also +1 very soon. i'll have to give it a shot.
what i didn't like was you didn't get reactor starport so even when you saw protoss going vikings you didn't get any, which you should always do. sometimes you lost because you didnt scout air tech or HT tech so you didn't have ghosts/vikings ready, but that'll come with the practise.
all in all your style was very similar obviously and very good, think about the 4rax or 3rax thors. oh and one more thing, you didn't make mass orbitals and didnt sack scvs which im sure you'll start doing. I think that's one of the most important thing about this build because you free up about 30-40 supply of scvs which is huge keep it up
+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2011 08:36 meRz wrote:Haven't watched through the reps yet, but awesome post nonetheless! The idea of a transition into mech once you have your third is something ive also been thinking about but I haven't really gotten into the whole theorycrafting part, and the few games i've tried I've had sick problems during the actual transition phase. I'll look through the reps and comment further, gogo predy!
hey mate yeah as you can see that is the most difficult part of it. you can try it and post some reps as well
+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2011 10:19 Avril_Lavigne wrote:I was also inspired by the exact same game and I've had much success with it, I will be providing replays later tonight I'm a 2900 Master League with 300 bonus pool just for a little credibility EDIT: alright guys i'm back here's a my list of replays inspired by MVP vs st squirtle GAME 1 ON LTGAME 2 ON METAGAME 3 ON XEL NAGAGAME 4 ON LTGAME 5 ON XEL NAGA
good games, always get ghosts vs HTs though
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On February 20 2011 19:58 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2011 08:30 captainwaffles wrote:
Hey Predy, I've been working on something similar on the US server, I'll just let my replays speak for themselves, Tell me what you think in comparison to your style and I'll do vice versa when I've watch all of your replays (only seen one as of me posting this).
[url blocked]
Just off the top of my head, I don't think getting a 4th rax is ideal, or getting upgrades from the engibay, If you cut those two things you can get your mech rolling a lot faster, but what do I know lol, I'll have a more educated post after I watch all of your reps.
. hi, sorry i haven't responded earlier but it was night here i watched the replays, and i liked it. you're right about E-bay upgrades, those aren't needed. 3 or 4 rax? well i don't know that myself . in one of the reps i posted, on xelnaga, i do 3rax with fast tanks. it's one of the older replays and since then i started doing 4rax and later tech because if you build tanks from 1 factory it takes a lot of time to build a decent sized tank force and meantime the protoss will most probably attack you and then you have 1/3 less marauders (2rax tech lab instead of 3) and it's very difficult to hold it off. BUT i've been thinking that 3rax and factory for thors could work much better, because you get also +1 very soon. i'll have to give it a shot. what i didn't like was you didn't get reactor starport so even when you saw protoss going vikings you didn't get any, which you should always do. sometimes you lost because you didnt scout air tech or HT tech so you didn't have ghosts/vikings ready, but that'll come with the practise. all in all your style was very similar obviously and very good, think about the 4rax or 3rax thors. oh and one more thing, you didn't make mass orbitals and didnt sack scvs which im sure you'll start doing. I think that's one of the most important thing about this build because you free up about 30-40 supply of scvs which is huge keep it up
Hmm, I've thought of getting thors from the 1 factory against a more gateway based army (i.e. going twilight/templar tech) and getting the tanks later, the only bad thing i could of why it could be bad (or not optimal) is because thors are fucking expensive. I think it would delay the other factories going up, possibly making yourself more vulnerable to a timing attack, but I'm just spitballin' from the top of my head, I'll try it out.
I don't like getting a reactor on the starport because it just sets my factories back further. I think you need them when you push, to keep the collo at bay from just forcing you to siege every half second, but my main concern is getting my mech army after my 3rd is up. So my line of logic is, if they attack me, I should have enough tanks/bunkers to hold, I might be wrong, I'll try out the reactor port in some future game and see how it feels.
Yeah, I really like the Mass Orbitals after the 4th base, very...good for lack of a better word. more scans, more mules, bigger army, and hell, if you lose a CC... fly another over! lol.
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What is your take on transitioning into mech after 2rax FE? It feels much more safer.
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If u will have some reps of 3rax thors, please post them..
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On February 20 2011 20:19 Bleak wrote:
What is your take on transitioning into mech after 2rax FE? It feels much more safer.
well it's something different from what i do, as you don;t get big enough bio force do attack or pressure and it's more of a pure mech play, i think that's viable as well, but i think you have to be on 3+ base to play mech effectively, because on 2base you'll have so much overmins if you go pure mech and then you're forced to expand with not too many units and if they shut down your hellion harass it's hard.
On February 20 2011 20:38 Weezing wrote:
If u will have some reps of 3rax thors, please post them..
yeah i'll try to play some games today, right now tho none of my good protoss friends are online, if anyone know 3.6k+ pts protoss msg
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the day Terrans learn to transition into Mech is a sad day for Protoss 8(
Appreciate your efforts.
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EPT
