EPTif you use your auto turrets you will auto win. ^^
Did iEchoic break TvT? - Page 7
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Synapze
Canada563 Posts
if you use your auto turrets you will auto win. ^^ | ||
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nodule
Canada931 Posts
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barkles
United States285 Posts
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sofawall
29 Posts
Also, this build seems like it would love maps like LT for the island expansions. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 13 2011 12:02 barkles wrote: Also, to counter hellions drops just block off your mineral line with supply depots/engineering bay/armory/starport and put a turret behind it so he cant drop directly on the SCVs. That's quite a lot of buildings to seal your minline with by the time the first drop comes after your attack (not push, damn! Such a misused term). Timings are important regarding the amount of defenses you can gather, especially when you're dropped during your attack (or on your way to it). | ||
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barkles
United States285 Posts
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barkles
United States285 Posts
On February 13 2011 12:09 Alaric wrote: That's quite a lot of buildings to seal your minline with by the time the first drop comes after your attack (not push, damn! Such a misused term). Timings are important regarding the amount of defenses you can gather, especially when you're dropped during your attack (or on your way to it). Well it's very map dependent (Xel'Naga being easier that Steppes, for example), but it's very doable, even if the other player is sprinting to a blue flame drop. Try it for yourself, and note the timings. You'll see what I mean One turret will not stop a medivac from dropping in your line, and I'd gladly pay a medivac to have some alone time between 4 blue-flame hellions and all your SCVs. Also, a combination of hellions to kill off the marines and banshees to kill off the marauders leaves this build in the green. Lots of strong pushes may cause trouble, as you are likely to cause some sort of damage with the marauders before they die, but with all your SCVs killed off for the low, low price of one medivac and 4 Hellions, I rate your chances of constant pushes as "low". Then build two turrets. And again, if you execute a bio push before building a CC, banshees will NOT be out in time to help defend. | ||
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Xova
United States342 Posts
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
Sensor Tower marauder/tank comes out just as fast at hellions, same with reactor viking. Throw up a sensor to see when the harasses are coming, and do drops to keep this super-aggressive harassing build on it's toes. if they can harass, why can't you? | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On February 13 2011 13:04 TheCookieMonster wrote: Most under-used and under-appreciated terran tool in the game: Sensor Tower marauder/tank comes out just as fast at hellions, same with reactor viking. Throw up a sensor to see when the harasses are coming, and do drops to keep this super-aggressive harassing build on it's toes. if they can harass, why can't you? because you have the 3 most mobile units in the game that can instantly reposition | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
i think that if some1 scouts this build, going 2 port vikings and massing marauders can be quite effective, with 2 port vikings you will most certainly have the air control, due to the fact the opponent needs 1 of their ports for banshees, and if they dont make enought banshees the marauders can easily clean up the hellions. the marauders are there to attack the hellions, and their high hp allows them to tank alot more dmg than marines. the issue with this ofcourse if that if they transition into the standard tank play, you have too many vikings/maruaduer force, but there is a timing window if he does decide to switch unit composition that you can attack | ||
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Pl4t0
United States103 Posts
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Teddimijia
United States14 Posts
On February 12 2011 22:30 Endorsed wrote: No. You can win with standard play. It's just a wierd unit combination nobody has played against before. There is a reason korean pro's aren't doing this. I think any standard unit composition in TvT can beat this. If you have air control this build is comepletely useless. Bio can also beat this. bio can beat it if the bio has a lot of marauders and air control. if there are large numbers of marines they will die to the blue flame. marauders would clean up the blue flame but the whole point of the hellions is to b expendable. this build just really demonstrates that TvT is all about the air. IMHO | ||
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JaFFsteR
41 Posts
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
On February 13 2011 13:14 TheSCII wrote: i've seen this on ladder quite abit, and although the people i play arent too high up (~2600-2800 diamond), i have noticed some issues with this build. this build relys on 3 units, the hellion, viking, and banshee (occasional medivac/raven) i think that if some1 scouts this build, going 2 port vikings and massing marauders can be quite effective, with 2 port vikings you will most certainly have the air control, due to the fact the opponent needs 1 of their ports for banshees, and if they dont make enought banshees the marauders can easily clean up the hellions. the marauders are there to attack the hellions, and their high hp allows them to tank alot more dmg than marines. the issue with this ofcourse if that if they transition into the standard tank play, you have too many vikings/maruaduer force, but there is a timing window if he does decide to switch unit composition that you can attack If they make a raven PDD is very very very effective against your vikings. | ||
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sofawall
29 Posts
On February 13 2011 15:12 JaFFsteR wrote: If you have air control and tanks this build crumbles. With early enough scouting you can pump out vikings and a raven or two to counter banshees athen transiton in marine/marauder/tank with vikings. How do you propose to gain air control when A) The build is facking optimized for it, as the creator and others have stated many times, perhaps due to the necessity thereof, and B) Investing a crapton more gas in Tanks than he is in Banshees of Hellions? | ||
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624 Majority of the people here don't understand the build at all, and suggest things that basically what iEchoic was aiming to beat. It should be a requirement to read that thread before you offer a "if you use X and Y you should beat it". The other half thinks beating some random scrub on Ladder/Custom games means the build is shit, when in iEchoic's post he states in BOLD that the build is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO EXECUTE. He even thinks HE, himself, can't use the build to its full potential. I honestly don't think any1 below 3k Masters (average master league) can even remotely execute the build cleanly. People don't even realise that the build is not called "helion + banshee" but 2fact + 2 port with responses outlined in his Guide for each popular openers and unit comp. If anything, this build should raise the skill level for TvT. In order to play this style effectively, you're going to need good multitask as well as map awareness and game sense. I don't find placing tanks on ledge etc to be extremely challenging. Whenever I off race as T, i can place tanks around towers or w/e and just macro my heart out knowing, I only really have to worry about drops+banshees. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 13 2011 08:40 iEchoic wrote: The guy said he was FEing, a FE comes before a 4marine 1 hellion poke hits. Someone was telling him not to FE if he scouted it. he said he scouted early (dont know how, maybe lucky scan, maybe a reaper). It doesnt really matter, point is he knew about it quite fast. So even if he did open with FE, he didnt have to use it as it's extremely difficult to cover both main and natural with few units early vs mobile hellions. just keep it in base and stack scvs. | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
Basically, if you lose air dominance vs his build, you will lose. If you keep it, it nullifies his banshees and he will have to spend all his gas on vikings to keep up, but you will be ahead from the start. | ||
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sofawall
29 Posts
On February 13 2011 17:16 EternaL_9 wrote: Ide just keep absolute air dominance.. like when ur on 2-3 bases have 2-3 starports with reactors and make siege tanks / marauders to kill his helions. if he transitions you will have air dominance for the tank battle. Basically, if you lose air dominance vs his build, you will lose. If you keep it, it nullifies his banshees and he will have to spend all his gas on vikings to keep up, but you will be ahead from the start. It so easy to keep air dominance when all your workers are dead and you're hemorrhaging gas through your factories and barracks. I should try going HTs and Void Rays in my PvP games to complement my Colossi, I mean, as long as I have more Colossi my Void Rays and Storms can just roll the field with the gateway units. | ||
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