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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On February 12 2011 03:08 parn wrote: Yep Terran comments are also welcome, ty. I was just trying to be helpful, but that is obviously not welcome here ... If you'd rather wait for a good protoss to tell you the same thing, so be it ... | ||
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ColonelSeitan
United States78 Posts
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Exiiile
United States20 Posts
If he had gotten 250mm Strike Cannon (And he could have), he would have been able to destroy your Immortals instantly. In my experience (2800 Diamond), +3 Armor upgrade as well as a Guardian Shield and Psi Storm is the best counter to mass Thor. Thors aren't the problem, it's everything else. Smaller more mobile and easily produced units beat Thors until Thors get +3 Attack, which he didn't have. | ||
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parn
France296 Posts
On February 12 2011 03:15 Lurk wrote: I was just trying to be helpful, but that is obviously not welcome here ... If you'd rather wait for a good protoss to tell you the same thing, so be it ... You misunderstood dude  i was just thanking you! | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
This may seem counterintuitive, but you can actually kite thors with colossi (range up'd obv). I would say just keep massing colossi which will handle all T ground (there will be a significant lack in vikings if your opponent is massing thors). I would personally opt for colossi. Don't get storm against thors; 80 damage (won't even be full damage since stuff moves) on a thor (storm hits like 1 thor) is such a waste. Use your gas towards robo units. P lategame>>>T lategame | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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WastedScotch
Canada10 Posts
On February 12 2011 03:27 Exiiile wrote: Based on the replay: 100% of your zealots died without doing any damage, not because they all died before they got to the enemy, but because they were all trying to attack the Thors but couldn't because the Marauders were in front. I didn't see any EMPs or PDD's go off, but one PDD would have nullified most of your Stalkers from doing anything useful and the EMP would have destroyed your Immortals. You also upgraded Shields, which I have no idea why you did, Immortals get better with Armor upgrades, not Shield upgrades. Same goes with Colossus' and Zealots. (They have more health than shield, IE: Armor upgrades do more for them than a shield upgrade) Also a shield upgrade can be 100% nullified by a single EMP. If he had gotten 250mm Strike Cannon (And he could have), he would have been able to destroy your Immortals instantly. In my experience (2800 Diamond), +3 Armor upgrade as well as a Guardian Shield and Psi Storm is the best counter to mass Thor. Thors aren't the problem, it's everything else. Smaller more mobile and easily produced units beat Thors until Thors get +3 Attack, which he didn't have. In my opinion this is the only valid answer that has spawned from this thread. Pretty much ever other answer was from some one who didnt even watch the replay and said mass VR or Immortal. Carriers could be a good option. | ||
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ColonelSeitan
United States78 Posts
All those points are spot on, though I missed that the zealots were going directly for the thors as I thought I had just attack-moved them. I'll have to watch that engagement again. There seems to be a lot of theory-crafting in this thread (which is what happened in the other one I referenced as well) | ||
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MacroKing
Canada298 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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WastedScotch
Canada10 Posts
On February 12 2011 23:59 MacroKing wrote: Immortals and chargelots = win. I didn't watch the rep. Shit like this seriously needs to get cracked down on. Come on mods we know you can do it <3 | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
For now I think the consensus is, that against mass-thors you need to start out with a neat robotics-force (I've seen kiwikaki going with 2 robos straight away for immortals/colossi after scouting this) and then transition into either void rays or carriers - where I'd say carriers should work better because they don't get shut down from vikings that efficiently. Also you probably need the templar tech at some point because otherwise +3 marines will be able to inflict to much damage before they die. Chargelots won't cut it since every thor-play normally adds blueflame hellions at some point which just roast the front-line which is all that takes to negate the charge-threat. The real question though is: how to structure your game accordingly. Meaning, as we all have played countless games vs MMM we all know that MMM is more mobile and it's fine for us toss-players to stay defensively. Against thor-play it seems like the roles are completely switched and we have to outexpand and harass while getting the transitions on route properly. So, do you try to do some harassment? (DTs, warpprism). Do you take a much quicker third? Do you maybe even try to double expand zerg-style, meaning two expos at different locations? Do you actively try to engage multiple times keeping the thor-count low? | ||
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slothly
England20 Posts
The mothership should be a standard late game unit in any matchup when you have templar tech, doubly so as heavy thor play relies on clumping; do go heavy on the archons though, you will want 8 or more to offset the thor's high HP. | ||
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badcop
United States176 Posts
If they go emp and thors still go immortals. This will only work if they go truly mass thors and no other units. | ||
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slothly
England20 Posts
On February 14 2011 10:35 badcop wrote: If its mass thors just go absurd amounts of immortals, you'll win. If they go emp and thors still go immortals. This will only work if they go truly mass thors and no other units. Strike cannon + EMP. | ||
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junmkk
United States19 Posts
I thought maxed Zealot/Immortal would work but nope  | ||
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LilClinkin
Australia667 Posts
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
3 collossi (any more than that is a bad idea), charge zealots/ blink stalkers, mass void rays i only make 1 robo in PvT, to produce 3 collossi (no immortals. immortals suck) and observers plenty gateways for zealot/stalkers and 2-3 stargates for mass void rays i go less on the void rays if my enemy is getting less thors, however a thor switch requires you to get void rays The reason void rays work so well against thors is because NORMALLY thors will be doing their 90 damage ground attack that rapes your zealots and stalkers, but with void rays you force the thor to deal their weaker slower attack to air units. thors actually have priority in attacking air units so with void rays on the field you force the thor to not attack ground letting your zealots and stalkers do work now thors 6 x 4 damage to void rays. I try to upgrade shields against terran because normally a terran cannot get vikings, mass thors, AND emp. so because the terran cannot get emp and vikings to backup his mass thors i upgrade shields the shield upgrade helps my air and my ground, and then i can upgrade air/ground attacks and avoid armor upgrades because shields take the place of that so thors fully upgraded will be dealing 9 damage to void rays, but with fully upgraded shields and guardian shield that can be reduced to 4 damage. i dont really try to magic box my voidrays instead i spread them slightly and just shift-click every thor hopefully dropping and killing every thor quickly void rays shift-clicked kill 1 thor in about 1 second. you kill 8 thors in 10 seconds, normally fast enough to turn the battle into your favor | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
THors have short range and are bulky. Thats why i don;y go Mass Thor l8 game. Not to mention Carriers and Voids You could also simply out mobilize him and immortal drop all his CCs. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On February 11 2011 08:03 darklordjac wrote: Magic boxing really doesn't require that much micro, and don't void rays shoot while moving on top of that? Magic boxing voids isn't as effective as it would be for, say, mutas because voids move soooooo slow. En masse, thors will beat voids regardless. The best counter to thors is to meet them with immortals but you need to scout/react at the appropriate time otherwise you'll still get crushed. | ||
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