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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:37 nvs. wrote: Now that Zerg has a viable 4gate / 2rax rush perhaps their openings will stop being so predictable.  It's only equivalent to a 4gate or a 2rax if it lets Zerg do all the fake-out bullshit and eco-friendly deviations those builds permit - which is yet to be determined empirically | ||
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
1) You can scout it coming by seeing the early warren before zerglings can deny you 2) If you immediately drop a forge, cannons will be complete or very near complete (depending on map) when his push arrives 3) Spending 300 minerals on cannons (not counting a forge here cause you want it anyway) will still leave you lightyears ahead of a Zerg who is on 14 drones to your ~20 workers 4) Even if Z cancels the rush upon seeing your forge (which you can sac a 50 mineral probe to determine), you will still be close to even and now it is 1 base toss vs 1 base zerg. Guess who wins that race? | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
YMMV! | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
4) Even if Z cancels the rush upon seeing your forge (which you can sac a 50 mineral probe to determine), you will still be close to even and now it is 1 base toss vs 1 base zerg. Guess who wins that race? I wouldn't be so confident about that, you know. The lings made right after the roach warren will make it difficult for the probe, especially when speed finishes, and an expansion can be dropped pretty quickly if that's what Zerg wants to do. Heck, he could even cut gas after enough for one roach and send that over to loiter at the edge of sight and really convince you he's serious... | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
EDIT: why is everyone flaming travis? i was hoping to find a decent way to stop this build too... | ||
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gnurk
Norway50 Posts
1: artosis now plays protoss 2: artosis havent whined about this build 3: artosis whines about anything even near "hard to stop" from these 3 points i can tell u this build either doesn't excist, or is easy to handle | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:36 BandonBanshee wrote: I have never cried imbalance in pvz before because I never thought the matchup was imbalanced Of course not you play toss Thank you for your extremely insightful first post. Do you guys crawl out of the woodwork to post random nonsense in the "Strategy forum"? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:02 kcdc wrote: They can deny scouting with 2 zerglings. All you know is that they went roach warren at 14 food. From that point forward, they could do this all-in or they could make 100% drones. If a roach warren at 14 food means you need a forge and 3 cannons, Z auto-wins every game. You can't kill their scout at this time, so if they see you cannoning, they just stop at 2 or 4 zerglings, take an expansion and make 100% drones. Meanwhile, you've spent 600 early minerals on static defense to deal with 2 zerglings, and you're behind in tech and economy with no way to attack or defend your natural. Cannons aren't a good solution because it's not all-in until Z makes a ton of zerglings, and by that point, you can't scout. From the replay he queues up 3 roaches first, then lings after inject. So not only do you scout the early warren you scout the early roaches, and by that point I think you can confirm it is an all-in. If you go the standard gate-core opener and spot the early warrren, you can cancel zealot, cut probes and skip 2nd gas and drop down 2 gates ASAP. Then chrono out 3 stalkers while you park your probe at his base to 100% confirm the all-in. Once you do, make a complete wall-in at your ramp and queue up 3 more stalkers. You will have your 3 stalkers behind a complete wall-in with 3 more stalkers on the way vs 3 roaches and 8 lings. You should know the outcome from here. I do not believe you need cannons. However what is scary is if they do a hatch -> proxy roach warren in some cornor where you don't spot it. That would probably throw a lot of people off. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On February 02 2011 13:22 travis wrote: dude, ur so wrong, there is no way in hell the immortal would be out even close to in time yeah....no way in hell that immo could be out by then. did you even watch the replay? | ||
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Kralle333
Denmark301 Posts
Can you guise name other rushes that comes around that time? | ||
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Madiano
9 Posts
On February 03 2011 02:01 Kralle333 wrote: The rush comes at around 6 min. Can you guise name other rushes that comes around that time? Mothership rush? | ||
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nigritude
83 Posts
you "know it is coming" but you don't forge.... c'mon son | ||
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MorsCerta
United States234 Posts
On February 03 2011 02:01 Kralle333 wrote: The rush comes at around 6 min. Can you guise name other rushes that comes around that time? It was there around 5 minutes. On February 03 2011 01:56 Skyro wrote: From the replay he queues up 3 roaches first, then lings after inject. So not only do you scout the early warren you scout the early roaches, and by that point I think you can confirm it is an all-in. If you go the standard gate-core opener and spot the early warrren, you can cancel zealot, cut probes and skip 2nd gas and drop down 2 gates ASAP. Then chrono out 3 stalkers while you park your probe at his base to 100% confirm the all-in. Once you do, make a complete wall-in at your ramp and queue up 3 more stalkers. You will have your 3 stalkers behind a complete wall-in with 3 more stalkers on the way vs 3 roaches and 8 lings. You should know the outcome from here. I do not believe you need cannons. However what is scary is if they do a hatch -> proxy roach warren in some cornor where you don't spot it. That would probably throw a lot of people off. he did not get 3 roaches first, he got 2 lings first. | ||
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Crystal368
Sweden161 Posts
I'm a newb, don't hate | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
One risk for me I saw is he might have been about to walk his stalkers down and snipe the overlord, though it would be risky if he was still outside when the lings showed up. So I don't think you can hold it with stalkers, I might have even fucked up the timing a little bit. Though I wonder how well he would have been able to hold it if he had a pylon wall instead of zealot wall because he would quickly be able to warp in more units. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/133986-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis | ||
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
though i think there will be a solution for protoss appearing soon; a forge is definitely not a bad idea because it forces zerg to stay back and start expanding and drone up while the protoss can expand with cannons too | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
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Obelisco
Peru1962 Posts
The problem here could have been the BO? as Travis was getting the sentries for an early expo, an the attack was too early to defend with FFs After watching the replay more, i guess 2 chrono boosts on the gateway would allow a 3rd sentry to come out and enough for the first sentry to have another FF ready. Warp gate would come out and probably be able to hold it. (I think u still need to rewall tho) This is just theory tho. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
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grannock
United States81 Posts
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