EPTSecond, I would focus his overlord instead of keeping units idle (if he gets no vision = gg)
Third, I would use forcefields for splitting his army
I think this way you can easily stop this all-in and win the game right there.
[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 20
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ksn
Italy34 Posts
Second, I would focus his overlord instead of keeping units idle (if he gets no vision = gg) Third, I would use forcefields for splitting his army I think this way you can easily stop this all-in and win the game right there. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On February 03 2011 00:25 Twaxter wrote: For what its worth, I'm only 2600 Masters Zerg. (I will never do this :D) I'm beginning to wonder if that's why Zerg is constantly under the cosh in the early game: anything that doesn't involve droning this hard is frowned upon. What if, instead, we treated this like the all-in variant of 2-rax play, and started looking for other variants or deviations to punish the responses we scout? We might not find anything, but I can't believe it's not worth a try... First, I would chronoboost units out Second, I would focus his overlord instead of keeping units idle (if he gets no vision = gg) Third, I would use forcefields for splitting his army I think this way you can easily stop this all-in and win the game right there. Travis, if you want to hit him, I'll cheerfully hold him for you  | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
What this really farks up, however, it team games. Imagine 4 zergs doing this on one of the 2 players per base kind of maps. Painful. 12 roaches and 40 zerglings at your base at 5:20. OUCH. Oh, and a proxy hatch cancel into roach warren could be amazing. It doesn't even really have to be out of your base....who scouts the corners of a zergs base? | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
9 ovie 10 drone 11 drone 12 gas (@ ~150 minerals) 11 pool 10 drone 11 drone 12 drone 13 drone 14 queen 16 roach warren 15 zergling @ 100/100 metabolic boost 16 overlord @ 48 gas pull 1 drone off gas 16 roach 18 roach 20 roach 22 overlord and then from there transition out if you scout cannons with those first 2 lings, or just build lings and go for the GG. This build was getting the third roach out for me at around 4:20 game time. If I get evo chamber to get me something better I will post it, but that is the best I have been able to do so far. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On February 03 2011 00:50 Bair wrote: So I am going to have to mess around with evo chamber, because right now I am getting the third roach spawned at 4:48 with it, which is slower than the 7rr. Hmm. That's weird, because even with the 10 second delay incurred by the hatch-cancel I tested, my roaches were ready at 4:30. I desperately want to go check the original replay again now to make sure I'm right :D | ||
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Nakas
United States148 Posts
On February 02 2011 13:08 travis wrote: i even knew this was coming. Yet you spent a huge amount of time, resources, and chronoboosts towards teching to warpgates, which would not finish until after the timing attack hit. The timing on your second gateway was also such that it was totally useless against this push. It's not enough to know what the opponent is doing, you need to adapt to it. Fire up YABOT and find a build that doesn't leave you with one zealot and one sentry 5 minutes into the game. Also, you played THREE games (in which you probably did basically the same thing), and started a post cying imba? Come'on man... | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 02 2011 14:08 Salv wrote: Firstly, this guy threw down the roach warren at 2:55 - so let's just say at 3:00 you would scout this, which is totally assumable because he has nothing to stop you from looking around his base for as long as you want. Even when his two lings pop, he has to still chase you. Secondly, a forge has a 45 second build time, and a cannon has a 40 second build time. With your forcefields, it was 5:40 until he was able to climb your ramp. That's 160 seconds to get your forge and cannons, and it takes less than a minute and a half to do so - two minutes if you want to do it really non chalantly. What's the problem with this Travis? That's ridiculous. They have 14 drones and no tech. You will have close to 25 probes yourself, and you can start to tech. It's a tricky all-in at best - but there has been nothing to suggest it's even that hard to beat. They can deny scouting with 2 zerglings. All you know is that they went roach warren at 14 food. From that point forward, they could do this all-in or they could make 100% drones. If a roach warren at 14 food means you need a forge and 3 cannons, Z auto-wins every game. You can't kill their scout at this time, so if they see you cannoning, they just stop at 2 or 4 zerglings, take an expansion and make 100% drones. Meanwhile, you've spent 600 early minerals on static defense to deal with 2 zerglings, and you're behind in tech and economy with no way to attack or defend your natural. Cannons aren't a good solution because it's not all-in until Z makes a ton of zerglings, and by that point, you can't scout. | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
hope it helps | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
BTW this was on Steppes and he held me off... fast immortal/zealot really came a lot sooner than I thought it could. However, after my "all-in" failing I was only 3 drones behind, had my queen out, and toss had only two gateways. I was able to drone up, get right back in the game, and went on to win it. If he had tried to attack me, speedlings would have held off immortal + 2 warpgate zealot just fine. | ||
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xDontBlinKx
Canada6 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
so a complete Wall-In with 1 Canon should be the way to go. well actually i would first off all suggest, skipping any Zealots, as long as you don't see any Zerglings at all. for 50 more mins, you get double the HP and more DPS with 1 Canon, also gonna remember, you need less Pylons due to less Supply. definitly you should put only as much canons as necessary, gonna keep that probe at least alive to judge if they are building the units they are supposed to build. If its clear their coming let the Canons chop of some of their units, by trapping them with forcefields. As long as Canons get into the fight, their pretty cost effectiv. | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On February 03 2011 00:56 Umpteen wrote: Hmm. That's weird, because even with the 10 second delay incurred by the hatch-cancel I tested, my roaches were ready at 4:30. I desperately want to go check the original replay again now to make sure I'm right :D Nonono, I meant using evolution chamber (the zerg BO optimizer) the order I was getting got the third roach out on that timing. 4:20ish is when I was able to get it using the BO I just posted (which is a little different than the one in the first replay). | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:19 Bair wrote: Nonono, I meant using evolution chamber (the zerg BO optimizer) the order I was getting got the third roach out on that timing. 4:20ish is when I was able to get it using the BO I just posted (which is a little different than the one in the first replay). Oh, so the evo chamber was giving you roaches at 4:48? Interesting. What other specifications did you supply, apart from the three roaches? | ||
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MERLIN.
Canada546 Posts
Hope this helps, it was just rough from watching a Prime members play. | ||
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Tatari
United States1179 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:23 MERLIN. wrote: Just mid level 3300 terran, masters but my advice from watching a prime member deal with early rush is to constantly rebuild your pylon wall as he breaks it and keep falling back with stalkers, when you wall ur ramp, instead of using zealots u pop 1 pylon (this will go down) and as he is about to break it you make more to constantly keep walling. His build is an all in, so if he fails he loses, you just need to hold. Hope this helps, it was just rough from watching a Prime members play. Zealot -> stalker -> sentry? I agree that you want buildings involved however you choose to defend it, but I wonder what the unit order should be. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 03 2011 01:02 kcdc wrote: They can deny scouting with 2 zerglings. All you know is that they went roach warren at 14 food. From that point forward, they could do this all-in or they could make 100% drones. If a roach warren at 14 food means you need a forge and 3 cannons, Z auto-wins every game. You can't kill their scout at this time, so if they see you cannoning, they just stop at 2 or 4 zerglings, take an expansion and make 100% drones. Meanwhile, you've spent 600 early minerals on static defense to deal with 2 zerglings, and you're behind in tech and economy with no way to attack or defend your natural. Cannons aren't a good solution because it's not all-in until Z makes a ton of zerglings, and by that point, you can't scout. I agree with this, if he fakes you into building a forge with 3 cannons and goes pure drones then as Protoss you are royally fucked. How do you come back in that situation? It puts you on the backfoot the entire game... | ||
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Valckrie
United Kingdom533 Posts
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BandonBanshee
Canada437 Posts
Of course not you play toss User was warned for this post | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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