On February 05 2012 09:08 NewbieOne wrote: Question: Has anyone ever seen a tournament or GM ladder replay with a Terran player putting a PF in his natural? I've seen a #1 (or so) Master player do that in TvZ. I'm curious because while the accepted standard is like 4th, I can think of some situations where this could be justified strategically (as in enabling you to survive a frontal push where you'd otherwise lack the stopping power with some risky builds or preventing some forms of harass or tipping the scale in a base race). So, any one time a pro actually did this?
Obviously, OCs are more ideal than PFs, but perhaps not for reasons you may think.
OCs give much more minerals, yes, but that doesn't mean they're the best choice. Theoretically, they are the best choice; however, the metagame could affect the decision between getting an OC or a PF. For example, there is a chance that he might all-in you and you, (like you said) doing a tech heavy build, are safe thanks to the PF.
But since Starcraft is a game of cutting corners to steal an advantage over your opponent, usually they go for OCs. It's similar to the idea of why pros usually put their CCs on low grounds when they fast/early expand, instead of keeping it in their main where it's much safer and where they may only lose 200 ish minerals from lost mining time by floating it out.
Usually when they go for a greedy build, they'll pick a map where it's safer to defend their natural; they'll get an OC instead, and hope to buy enough time or force the opponent to stay home through things like map control or harass until the OC can pay off and the player could, for example, make 1-2 PFs somewhere defending his natural or defending his main, nat, AND third. If it were a map where the nat or first 3 bases aren't easy to defend at one area, they would probably not pick that greedy build, since there's a chance their harass or such could fail and the opponent just come and kill them.
I don't think I ever saw a GM/pro player do it, but I often take a PF natural because of the nature of my terran air strategy vs protoss, and I've won against a couple GM protoss doing so.
Im getting put vs people that arent ranked, yet they have 1K+ Ladder wins, there just merking me, same three kids over and over.. =/ any idea why this is?
On February 05 2012 09:08 NewbieOne wrote: Question: Has anyone ever seen a tournament or GM ladder replay with a Terran player putting a PF in his natural? I've seen a #1 (or so) Master player do that in TvZ. I'm curious because while the accepted standard is like 4th, I can think of some situations where this could be justified strategically (as in enabling you to survive a frontal push where you'd otherwise lack the stopping power with some risky builds or preventing some forms of harass or tipping the scale in a base race). So, any one time a pro actually did this?
Obviously, OCs are more ideal than PFs, but perhaps not for reasons you may think.
OCs give much more minerals, yes, but that doesn't mean they're the best choice. Theoretically, they are the best choice; however, the metagame could affect the decision between getting an OC or a PF. For example, there is a chance that he might all-in you and you, (like you said) doing a tech heavy build, are safe thanks to the PF.
But since Starcraft is a game of cutting corners to steal an advantage over your opponent, usually they go for OCs. It's similar to the idea of why pros usually put their CCs on low grounds when they fast/early expand, instead of keeping it in their main where it's much safer and where they may only lose 200 ish minerals from lost mining time by floating it out.
Usually when they go for a greedy build, they'll pick a map where it's safer to defend their natural; they'll get an OC instead, and hope to buy enough time or force the opponent to stay home through things like map control or harass until the OC can pay off and the player could, for example, make 1-2 PFs somewhere defending his natural or defending his main, nat, AND third. If it were a map where the nat or first 3 bases aren't easy to defend at one area, they would probably not pick that greedy build, since there's a chance their harass or such could fail and the opponent just come and kill them.
I don't think I ever saw a GM/pro player do it, but I often take a PF natural because of the nature of my terran air strategy vs protoss, and I've won against a couple GM protoss doing so.
Thanks, Yoshi, that was very informative, especially that part about cutting corners as opposed to believing that the OC is a better investment in normal terms. For what's worth it, skyterran is the kind of strategy where I used that PF in nat as a lowly gold player.
With Infestors if I hold down T to spam infested terrans then I often end up clicking on an enemy unit and so have to keep reselecting my infestors. Shift + T fixes this but if the infestors are moving then they'll move to the new position before spamming IT's. Is there a way to get round this? I want to be able to spam IT's without selecting enemy units.
On February 06 2012 02:35 snively wrote: as protoss, how do you react to a 6pool (or other early pool) if you went gateway first at the top of your ramp? thanks in advance
Pull probes and chrono out your zealot. If possible, wall off your ramp with a cyber core or with another gateway. You should be able to kill the first 6 zerglings with just your probes.
On February 06 2012 03:36 b0rt_ wrote: With Infestors if I hold down T to spam infested terrans then I often end up clicking on an enemy unit and so have to keep reselecting my infestors. Shift + T fixes this but if the infestors are moving then they'll move to the new position before spamming IT's. Is there a way to get round this? I want to be able to spam IT's without selecting enemy units.
Hitting (S)top then Shift + T will have all of your infestors stop where they are, then spam ITs where you click. This will both cause the ITs to be thrown right when you click, and prevent you from clicking on enemy units.
On February 06 2012 03:36 b0rt_ wrote: With Infestors if I hold down T to spam infested terrans then I often end up clicking on an enemy unit and so have to keep reselecting my infestors. Shift + T fixes this but if the infestors are moving then they'll move to the new position before spamming IT's. Is there a way to get round this? I want to be able to spam IT's without selecting enemy units.
Hitting (S)top then Shift + T will have all of your infestors stop where they are, then spam ITs where you click. This will both cause the ITs to be thrown right when you click, and prevent you from clicking on enemy units.
On February 01 2012 16:35 vVv Talent wrote: How do players split their probes at the beginning of the game and what does it do for them?
FP of idra spliting
I think most people just do a 3/3 split
Here's the reason for splitting
On March 03 2010 18:02 TieN.nS) wrote: If you just let the AI do the whole thing, you won't have enough minerals for a second worker until some time after the first one is finished building. With a proper split you should have the second worker queued up (or morphing) before the first one is done.
this is assuming you start your first worker before you split
but that reasoning is only sound for protoss/terran. What about zerg? Why is it (apparently) better to make a drone first, then mine -> split workers?
I think preparing yourself for a quick sweeping move sending your workers to the minerals as soon as the game loads and then starting your first worker is more efficient than the trendy splitting thing.
What would be the logical reasoning behind that? Other responses have said the goal is to start larva production asap by making the worker first, which imo makes sense.
On February 04 2012 09:47 whitefenix wrote: Is it possible to hold a proxy 11-11 2rax bunker rush with a hatch first build such as 14 hatch 14 pool?
Pull drones, two per SCV and two per marine. You can put a single drone on a building SCV but you really don't know how many he brought if it isn't all of them. Build lings/a spine the second the pool finishes. Don't assume you're safe until you see the rax lift/are gone.
It's been held in plenty of pro games, I wish I remembered which ones. What they all had in common was the zerg finding the rax though, which should signify the importance of good overlord paths and meticulous scouting.
On March 03 2010 18:02 TieN.nS) wrote: If you just let the AI do the whole thing, you won't have enough minerals for a second worker until some time after the first one is finished building. With a proper split you should have the second worker queued up (or morphing) before the first one is done.
this is assuming you start your first worker before you split
but that reasoning is only sound for protoss/terran. What about zerg? Why is it (apparently) better to make a drone first, then mine -> split workers?
I think preparing yourself for a quick sweeping move sending your workers to the minerals as soon as the game loads and then starting your first worker is more efficient than the trendy splitting thing.
What would be the logical reasoning behind that? Other responses have said the goal is to start larva production asap by making the worker first, which imo makes sense.
edit:
On February 02 2012 10:34 EienShinwa wrote: What is the normal timing for warp gate to be completed?
6:20 from a 13gate. Assuming you place your core down right after gateway completes which is around 2:50
Subtract 10 seconds for every chrono used.
I do the F1 split. Start the worker, then split every worker individually. It's slightly better than the 3/3 split.
Wouldn't it take more time for each worker to mine though?
On February 06 2012 02:35 snively wrote: as protoss, how do you react to a 6pool (or other early pool) if you went gateway first at the top of your ramp? thanks in advance
Pull probes and chrono out your zealot. If possible, wall off your ramp with a cyber core or with another gateway. You should be able to kill the first 6 zerglings with just your probes.
when you say wall off, do you mean a full wall-in, or a partial wall off with a space for a zealot? I used to do a full wall, but then i couldn't stop the zerglings from jsut chewing at my wall T_T.
if I do a partial wall, before the zealot comes out, do I want to plug the hole with probes on hold position, or do i want to try to get the surround with mineral walk and attack?
Whats a good way to counter an all out one/two base constant marine rush? If i start out like rax supply dep block in then another rax fact Star basically a 1-1-1 what would i change that into if i scout a 3+rax all out marine rush ?
How do you transition from the same Reactor Hellion > Expand > Banshee > Hellion/Banshee containing Z on 2 base > 2 base BIO, instead of Mech?
(It's the same one Gumiho does often, and ForGG uses it a lot on his stream, but transitions into mech instead).
I thought I remembered MMA doing that build on Crossfire (bio version, 2 base, instead of taking a third base like gumiho sometimes does before adding more rax/fact) but I can't find the game anywhere (look up his entire record on GOM)
If you can tell me how the fast third works as well, that would be great!
On February 06 2012 00:35 envisioN . wrote: Why do most pro gamers get Roach attack upgrades first in ZvZ? It seems like the carapace would be just as useful if not more so.
Aa far as I am aware they do it because than roaches (16 dmg +2 per upgrade ) can 2 shot banelings(35 hp) and that makes their sniping much more easier. Attack also stacks better with higher numbers of units(all attacking(hopefully) not all getting damaged) and is a bit cheaper.
Don't know is this exactly strategy but I wouldn't like to start new topic on this subject. Also tried to search posts and topics with words "calm" and "excitement". No real hits.
It's about being calm. No I'm not raging when I ladder, I can take defeat and I know there is someone better than I am. This is about staying calm, avoiding the "excitement" and "panic".
I know it's natural for human to get excited if something goes really well and if something goes horrible wrong... or being exact , it's before those moments. Your hearthrate goes up, you start to sweat, adrenaline goes thru your body... those are ok. Tells you're doing something you have passionate for. But for some people it brings mistakes, wrong estimates also... you fall down to the level you have trained for hours and hours to do in that situation.
Giving you example, I'm crushing my enemy with 200/200 army in big fashion, but still I get way too excited about the victory or something that releates to that and I forget my basics; macro, creep, upgrading, expanding, producing -> not good. Even the worse, if I see beforehand that big attack is coming and I need to prepare. I do basic mistakes... I get supplycapped at critical moment, I missclick, don't inject and etc. I just think "omg, I'm so close of losing now. Panic, panic!".
I know I'm a little bit of that kind of person in real life too, I lose my focus if something "out of the ordinary" happens, and I get my gameplay back up after sometime, normally "too late" for my liking. I want it back right at the instant.
I know training, preparing is the 90% of this process, but there is the 10%. I would like to have tips? Is there somehow I could train mainly focusing on this aspect outside of just when it happens in gamesituation? As this ain't only about the game I have love and passion for, I can take tips in real life too. Situation, things I could do to train myself?
And "breathe calmly" is a good tip, but I'm a familar with that one. What you fellow gamers to do keep yourself as cool as Nestea, after he just rolls over everyone?
I want to succeed and improve in every aspect of my life and that's why I'm asking.
Best regards, Siune
P.s. Pardon my weak(ish) english, not my native language.
On March 03 2010 18:02 TieN.nS) wrote: If you just let the AI do the whole thing, you won't have enough minerals for a second worker until some time after the first one is finished building. With a proper split you should have the second worker queued up (or morphing) before the first one is done.
this is assuming you start your first worker before you split
but that reasoning is only sound for protoss/terran. What about zerg? Why is it (apparently) better to make a drone first, then mine -> split workers?
I think preparing yourself for a quick sweeping move sending your workers to the minerals as soon as the game loads and then starting your first worker is more efficient than the trendy splitting thing.
What would be the logical reasoning behind that? Other responses have said the goal is to start larva production asap by making the worker first, which imo makes sense.
edit:
On February 02 2012 10:34 EienShinwa wrote: What is the normal timing for warp gate to be completed?
6:20 from a 13gate. Assuming you place your core down right after gateway completes which is around 2:50
Subtract 10 seconds for every chrono used.
I do the F1 split. Start the worker, then split every worker individually. It's slightly better than the 3/3 split.
Wouldn't it take more time for each worker to mine though?
Not if your fast enough. It does require good speed and precision with the mouse though.
On February 06 2012 06:21 Siune wrote: Don't know is this exactly strategy but I wouldn't like to start new topic on this subject. Also tried to search posts and topics with words "calm" and "excitement". No real hits.
It's about being calm. No I'm not raging when I ladder, I can take defeat and I know there is someone better than I am. This is about staying calm, avoiding the "excitement" and "panic".
I know it's natural for human to get excited if something goes really well and if something goes horrible wrong... or being exact , it's before those moments. Your hearthrate goes up, you start to sweat, adrenaline goes thru your body... those are ok. Tells you're doing something you have passionate for. But for some people it brings mistakes, wrong estimates also... you fall down to the level you have trained for hours and hours to do in that situation.
Giving you example, I'm crushing my enemy with 200/200 army in big fashion, but still I get way too excited about the victory or something that releates to that and I forget my basics; macro, creep, upgrading, expanding, producing -> not good. Even the worse, if I see beforehand that big attack is coming and I need to prepare. I do basic mistakes... I get supplycapped at critical moment, I missclick, don't inject and etc. I just think "omg, I'm so close of losing now. Panic, panic!".
I know I'm a little bit of that kind of person in real life too, I lose my focus if something "out of the ordinary" happens, and I get my gameplay back up after sometime, normally "too late" for my liking. I want it back right at the instant.
I know training, preparing is the 90% of this process, but there is the 10%. I would like to have tips? Is there somehow I could train mainly focusing on this aspect outside of just when it happens in gamesituation? As this ain't only about the game I have love and passion for, I can take tips in real life too. Situation, things I could do to train myself?
And "breathe calmly" is a good tip, but I'm a familar with that one. What you fellow gamers to do keep yourself as cool as Nestea, after he just rolls over everyone?
I want to succeed and improve in every aspect of my life and that's why I'm asking.
Best regards, Siune
P.s. Pardon my weak(ish) english, not my native language.
Honestly, I believe that this "calmness" comes with practice. I don't forget the basics when I am ahead or behind, because I've trained my hand to always tap to check my production, and my eyes to look at my supply and the minimap (and at the warpgates off cooldown number when I am playing protoss).
EPT
Also tried to search posts and topics with words "calm" and "excitement". No real hits.
