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On January 10 2012 21:44 DamVii wrote:
What is the best way to defend vs drops on my main on 3 base TvT? I played a game where i sieged my opponents natural killed his third but he loaded like 20-30 marines in medivacs and killed all my production facilities. Is spamming turrets a viable way?
note: i just started playing T.
Spamming turrets is viable - I'd definitely secure your main base first. And by spam, I mean getting 4-5 tops around the rim of your base - any more and you're going to stop to slow yourself down in terms of army. Place one turret near your mineral line for maximum protection against attempts to re-pickup hellions / marines and cover yourself against banshee harass. However, it is likely that against the 4-5 medivac drop you suffered, turrets alone would've been inadequate. You needed to somehow split your army, which is a difficult proposition, particularly when its all the way across the map. If he's got a big drop force in your base, remember that you'll stand a better chance of beating it if you rally your surviving production away from wherever he is, and gather up a bit before trying to engage. Also remember that in a pinch you can just float away your production and leave him to clean up your supply depots and add-ons. If you want truly specific advice, I'd recommend you read the strategy forum guidelines (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479), then post a replay of this situation with analysis in the strategy forum.
'Are turrets viable vs drops?' is a simple question. 'How do I prevent drops on 3base?' really isn't.
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Ive not played for about 2 seasons
do any maps have any spawn restrictions in the map pool?
i thought you couldnt get close on metal but i watched one of my reps from the other day today and my opponent scouted his close spawn first
thanks
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On January 11 2012 02:22 ThatGuy89 wrote:
Ive not played for about 2 seasons
do any maps have any spawn restrictions in the map pool?
i thought you couldnt get close on metal but i watched one of my reps from the other day today and my opponent scouted his close spawn first
thanks
Metal, Shakuras and Shattered have no close ground. He was just bad.
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On January 11 2012 02:25 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 02:22 ThatGuy89 wrote:
Ive not played for about 2 seasons
do any maps have any spawn restrictions in the map pool?
i thought you couldnt get close on metal but i watched one of my reps from the other day today and my opponent scouted his close spawn first
thanks Metal, Shakuras and Shattered have no close ground. He was just bad.
i know shakuras doesnt have close 
and i had a feeling that metal had been taken out but didnt know if shattered had or not
thanks for quick answer
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On January 09 2012 06:45 Unspecified wrote:
On maps like shakuras, you can do a clever little 2 gate expand that i saw Combatex doing. You basically wall off your ramp and pump out 3 zealots with 2 gates (no cyber). You then pressure with those whilst pumping out more zealots and getting your expand, probes etc. You then have about 8 zealots (dont quote me on that) and warp gate researching and you can literally walk into his base and destroy him. He may have a few roaches (in which case you back out), but if they don't have any then it's a guranteed GG.
Oh, ok. Yea, I'll try that! It seems pretty sweet, forcing roaches and everything. That'll keep them from being too greedy without the need to take too much of a risk.
Thanks!
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Do Probes have a smaller collision radius than Zealots? I've had two Zergling runbys today that I thought were blocked by a Probe, but the Zerglings got through. It was with the version of the Gate/Core walloff where the hole is on a corner, though, which can be a bit finnicky, so I'm not sure if it's just not as safe to block with a single Probe or if I was just mispositioned.
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask for replays but can anyone refer me to high lvl PvZ replay where the zerg goes mass muta/ling (and loses ofc)? Replays I found in the PvZ guides here had the zerg player building like 6 mutas just before losing to protoss; I'm searching for bit longer replays to learn from.
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Let's say in TvZ, I have 3 rax, 1 fact, 1 port on 2 base. In general, do I add 2 more rax and another fact before or after I start my 3rd CC? Or is that all dependent on what I scout and want to do?
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On January 11 2012 04:04 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Do Probes have a smaller collision radius than Zealots? I've had two Zergling runbys today that I thought were blocked by a Probe, but the Zerglings got through. It was with the version of the Gate/Core walloff where the hole is on a corner, though, which can be a bit finnicky, so I'm not sure if it's just not as safe to block with a single Probe or if I was just mispositioned.
I don't think this is the case. I tried this on unit test map, and you have to position the blocking unit pretty specifically. When you look at the building grid, there's a little cross at the point where the building corners meet, and you need to position the unit pretty squarely over that cross for this to work. For some reason it's easier to set a rally there than to manually maneuver the unit into position. There's also another position that seems to work.
Here's some images:
http://i.imgur.com/4LMg9.jpg (Probe blocking like a boss)
http://i.imgur.com/6JM8P.jpg (Zealot also blocking like a boss)
http://i.imgur.com/d7NFS.jpg (The blocking unit should be standing as squarely over that little cross there as possible!)
http://i.imgur.com/n8rW2.jpg (This is the other position, where the unit is solidly in the back corner square, occupying it as much as possible.)
http://i.imgur.com/7YkCf.jpg (The result in this position.)
So, if this wall off is troubling you, turn the building grid on in the options and use it to double-check your future walls.
EDIT: this also works in the exterior single square blocking the choke, but this obviously gives lings more surface area. I think if you want to block with a unit standing in the squares as opposed to the corner, you need to make sure it is fully inside the square, perhaps even a bit more towards the corner, to make the wall-off leak proof.
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Why do the zerg build 2 spires right next to each other? It would make sense to build them far apart, to prevent sniping, but why next to each other?
Why is contaminate so underused in ZvZ? It completely shuts down hatcheri larvae production. Has anyone considered mass contaminate in ZvZ?
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On January 10 2012 21:44 DamVii wrote:
What is the best way to defend vs drops on my main on 3 base TvT? I played a game where i sieged my opponents natural killed his third but he loaded like 20-30 marines in medivacs and killed all my production facilities. Is spamming turrets a viable way?
note: i just started playing T.
What else were you doing? If you're very Tank-heavy, then missile turrets are definitely a viable solution. Alternatively, you could get a bunch of Vikings and gain air control. Being active with them lets you intercept most drops with relatively ease.
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Hey guys!
Searching Replay NASL season 2 Finals Thorzain vs Puma replay on Tal Darim Day[9] did in his Terran Week Daily #394
And also from Daily #396 the Bomber vs Idra on antiga shipyard Replay.
PM me if Possible thx.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 11 2012 04:17 bellsNkeys wrote:
Let's say in TvZ, I have 3 rax, 1 fact, 1 port on 2 base. In general, do I add 2 more rax and another fact before or after I start my 3rd CC? Or is that all dependent on what I scout and want to do?
It depends on what you want to do. I think adding more rax and facts before expanding will slow down your expansion quite a bit. When I go marine-tank, I like the pressure the zerg with my army once the third tank is out. I start my 3rd CC around this time, then add on 2 more rax afterwards.
Adding the rax earlier will let you make a big timing push, but will force you to deal damage unless your opponent is taking a delayed 3rd or all-inning himself off 2 bases.
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On January 11 2012 04:05 i)awn wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask for replays but can anyone refer me to high lvl PvZ replay where the zerg goes mass muta/ling (and loses ofc)? Replays I found in the PvZ guides here had the zerg player building like 6 mutas just before losing to protoss; I'm searching for bit longer replays to learn from.
I found this replay on blizzard forums, might not be the best play from the zerg but it was good enough for me to see the general play of handling mass muta; observers come in handy. grubby(P) v aaanerchio(z)
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:12 i)awn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:05 i)awn wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask for replays but can anyone refer me to high lvl PvZ replay where the zerg goes mass muta/ling (and loses ofc)? Replays I found in the PvZ guides here had the zerg player building like 6 mutas just before losing to protoss; I'm searching for bit longer replays to learn from. I found this replay on blizzard forums, might not be the best play from the zerg but it was good enough for me to see the general play of handling mass muta; observers come in handy. grubby(P) v aaanerchio(z)
If you want to see a really awesome PvZ where the zerg player goes mutas for a long period of the game but the Protoss may prevail eventually, I highly recommend the exciting + Show Spoiler [GSL Novemeber Code A Spoiler] +
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On January 11 2012 01:17 Fadobo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 23:54 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi guys
I know it may sound random, but do you guys think that Tanks are good? There is a thread in strategy section discussing Tanks. Yes they are immobile etc., but I think they are pretty good if you know how to position them well....which brings me to the question:
When people say"place/position your tanks well", what do they really mean? Is it just spreading units? But that applies to every unit, to spread them to give them better concave, correct?
So....specifically for tanks, what advice do you have to use them to full advantage? Leapfrog is a good strategy, but what else? I am not a super-high level pro but I try to answer anyway: Yes, tanks are very good. In TvT it's great if you also have the air advantage. Tanks can shoot further than they see, so having more Vikings often means you can fire at your opponent while he can't (unless he scans). Against Zerg you should constantly scout or even scan when moving your tanks, since one moment of not paying attention can often cost you the game. If you see a ball of banelings make sure to right-click your (sieged)tanks on them, since they are usually top-priority to take out if you go tank/marine. A good position is usually 1)near a watch-tower (since tanks have full vision within their range, 2) a high-ground (since it's hard to attack them with melee units), 3) safe against flanks (since tank-efficiency decreases a lot when they fire in different directions. I'm not sure about the concave. Sometimes it might be better for your tanks to fire all at once, but sometimes I've seen multiple lines stacked behind each other. Maybe a better player can explain that. In TvP tanks can be viable, but as far as I heard Marine/Marauder/Medivac with Ghosts for Templar / Viking for Colossus is consider the better composition. Oh, and tanks without Marine Support (or Thor if you go Mech only) are very vulnerable to drops / mutas.
Thank you very much for the answer, I hope to get more opinions.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:29 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 01:17 Fadobo wrote:On January 10 2012 23:54 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi guys
I know it may sound random, but do you guys think that Tanks are good? There is a thread in strategy section discussing Tanks. Yes they are immobile etc., but I think they are pretty good if you know how to position them well....which brings me to the question:
When people say"place/position your tanks well", what do they really mean? Is it just spreading units? But that applies to every unit, to spread them to give them better concave, correct?
So....specifically for tanks, what advice do you have to use them to full advantage? Leapfrog is a good strategy, but what else? I am not a super-high level pro but I try to answer anyway: Yes, tanks are very good. In TvT it's great if you also have the air advantage. Tanks can shoot further than they see, so having more Vikings often means you can fire at your opponent while he can't (unless he scans). Against Zerg you should constantly scout or even scan when moving your tanks, since one moment of not paying attention can often cost you the game. If you see a ball of banelings make sure to right-click your (sieged)tanks on them, since they are usually top-priority to take out if you go tank/marine. A good position is usually 1)near a watch-tower (since tanks have full vision within their range, 2) a high-ground (since it's hard to attack them with melee units), 3) safe against flanks (since tank-efficiency decreases a lot when they fire in different directions. I'm not sure about the concave. Sometimes it might be better for your tanks to fire all at once, but sometimes I've seen multiple lines stacked behind each other. Maybe a better player can explain that. In TvP tanks can be viable, but as far as I heard Marine/Marauder/Medivac with Ghosts for Templar / Viking for Colossus is consider the better composition. Oh, and tanks without Marine Support (or Thor if you go Mech only) are very vulnerable to drops / mutas. Thank you very much for the answer, I hope to get more opinions.
I consider the Siege Tank to be the signature unit of the Terran race, much like the Mutalisk or Carrier for Zerg and Protoss respectively. I'll try to address your questions one by one and offer my thoughts on the usage of this beautiful unit.
On January 10 2012 23:54 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
When people say"place/position your tanks well", what do they really mean?
Well-positioned tanks are in locations that cover chokes, restrict enemy run/walkbys and movement, and don't allow the enemy to get close without getting shelled starting at maximum range. A classic example of this would be about 9 Range away from the bottom of the Nat ramp on Antiga Shipyard, cutting off a dude's nat from his third, and closer to his third than his main so he can't shoot you from the high-ground.
A couple MU-specific things: against Zerg, try to engage in chokes but not have your tanks physically hugging walls, cliffs, or open areas-- his mutalisks will get access to them, and the reduced surface area on your tanks is negligible. Trying to reduce the surface area that tanks will have vs zerglings is like trying to put anti-virus software on voting machines. I reference you to this XKCD comic to understand my point: http://xkcd.com/463/
Against Terran, You need to avoid any possibility of him picking off your tanks for free-- keep your marines and tanks together, and use your viking fleet to keep visiong around the periphery of your tanks. A large part of this is the air battle for sight control, but you can "sidestep the issue" by making a thor to keep his vikings away-- this will annoy him a great deal and he won't be able to kill the thor easily without battlecrusisers
On January 10 2012 23:54 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Is it just spreading units? But that applies to every unit, to spread them to give them better concave, correct?
Concaves only have some relevance to tanks. Due to their enormous range, as long as they're fairly closer together they'll all be able to shoot anyways. The only matchup where this sort of thing makes a difference is TvT since he will have tanks that have the same range as your tanks.
On January 10 2012 23:54 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
So....specifically for tanks, what advice do you have to use them to full advantage? Leapfrog is a good strategy, but what else?
Leapfrog, keep them together (they are much stronger in groups), always support them with marines (or marauders vs hellions). Against Zerg, use them to focus-fire banelings and infestors primarily-- your marines will clean up everything else. Against Protoss, use them to focus fire non-zealot gateway units. You can shoot at Colossi if they're standing over stuff, or non-charge zealots before they hit melee. You can shoot at immortals if they have no shields, or if they're really clumped up and it becomes a good idea to do so as a result. Do not shoot zealots in melee with your marines.
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Having a lot of problems vs 1-base allins as Zerg.
Lost to a 3-gate blink-allin and to a 1-base colossus allin.
I repeatedly poked his front with a ling and saw that he was only making zealots. I knew some sort of all-in was coming. I figured mass stargate units was possible, or 1-base DTs. Because I had to defend against these, my drone saturation was very poor as I made an extra queen + 4 sporecrawlers. By the time I realized he wasn't hitting with any of that (my spore saw his observer so I figured colossus all-in) it was too late.
I tried to rush mutas but I had ~4 out and no income by the time he hit, and his couple of stalkers+1 sentry or so completely crushed them. Do I just go mass, mass, mass roach in this case? How much am I supposed to be droning to? I felt really undersaturated because I was tryig to defend against so many possibilities.
Similar problem vs the blink all-in. I actually scout it pretty early with an overlord suicide, but then have no idea how to react. I tried to tech to infestors but again this is clearly the wrong answer as my infestation pit finished as he was at my front door. Spines can't defend against it, and I spent way too much in tech so I had no economy and not enough units. People keep saying "lings and roaches" but is that really the answer -- making both of them? I've read that blink all-ins are supposed to be very good against scattered ling/roach armies.
It seems like I'm out-smarting myself, trying to tech to counter, but I don't really see why it doesn't work. Maybe because by the time it takes to scout and react, my tech is useless and he has already used his? I feel like cutting economy is the correct thing to do but then again I'm probably cutting it way too much, despite being on two bases.
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when adding three rax at some point, like after gaseless FE, is it ok to wait for 450 minerals and then build them all at once? or do i lose too much production time then?
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If you build the rax's when you can you can have marines out earlier incase of an early push, in the early game every unit counts
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EPT
