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On October 12 2011 06:17 RonaldTimmins wrote:
Hi guys, I have two simple questions:
1) Why does mech suck so bad against Toss in TvP?
2) Why does Blizzard list Void Rays as being weak against Phoenix? (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/void-ray)
1) Mech isn't really used because mass chargelots destroy mech like a hot knife through butter. True, you'd take less splash from Collosi, Archons don't get the damage bonus, and psi storms don't do as much damage, but on the other hand, can you imagine a bunch of stalkers just blinking into the middle of your tank line? And because no one ever really gets the Thor 250 mm strike cannon, they can get fedback because of all the energy that builds up. And good forcefields destroy Hellions. Although, if you can get in and do enough damage with hellions early on, there's no reason why you can't go tanks to contain him. Just remember that you would need some sort of buffer against chargelots and some way to shoot down voidrays.
2) No idea. Probably because properly micro'ed void rays can be kited indefinitely? Although somehow, I doubt that...
Separate question: Where do you set your rally points when you move in for an attack? Front of natural to give you some place to retreat/defend against drops? Xel'naga for quicker reinforcements? Back of attacking army for immediate reinforcements?
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Ronald, mech doesn't necessarily suck against Toss but it's harder to pull off successfully than a biopush, due to lower survavibality vs early aggression. But you're happier with mech than with bio against colossi or HT. I suppose the problem with mech is Protoss's manoeuvrability, e.g. chargelots (melee fodder that kills tanks quickly), blink stalkers (similar principle), maybe voids (which eat massive targets like thors and can still fly around tanks obviously), as well as the ability to go immortals and shrug off any damage above 10. With bio, you as a Terran have more mobility and generally have more guns to kill all sorts of targets.
Spontaneous question: can a fast thor rush still work against Toss (gold level and by work I mean pay off, not necessarily survive and win the game)? This is a strategy I used in December but somehow stopped.
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On October 12 2011 06:38 NewbieOne wrote:
Ronald, mech doesn't necessarily suck against Toss but it's harder to pull off successfully than a biopush, due to lower survavibality vs early aggression. But you're happier with mech than with bio against colossi or HT. I suppose the problem with mech is Protoss's manoeuvrability, e.g. chargelots (melee fodder that kills tanks quickly), blink stalkers (similar principle), maybe voids (which eat massive targets like thors and can still fly around tanks obviously), as well as the ability to go immortals and shrug off any damage above 10. With bio, you as a Terran have more mobility and generally have more guns to kill all sorts of targets.
Spontaneous question: can a fast thor rush still work against Toss (gold level and by work I mean pay off, not necessarily survive and win the game)? This is a strategy I used in December but somehow stopped.
Mech is actually more vulnerable to Storm than bio, due to lower Ghost numbers, no healer unit, and an inability of Siege Tanks to, well, move out of Storm. It's another problem with mech, in that chip damage is hard to deal with unlike bio.
As to Thor rush, I suppose it can still work fine. The only annoying thing about it is that anything that stops 1-1-1 stops Thor, and half the Protoss blind-counter 1-1-1. Might be more viable after 1-1-1 falls off the Protoss radar again.
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On October 12 2011 07:37 Scare_Crow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:38 NewbieOne wrote:
Ronald, mech doesn't necessarily suck against Toss but it's harder to pull off successfully than a biopush, due to lower survavibality vs early aggression. But you're happier with mech than with bio against colossi or HT. I suppose the problem with mech is Protoss's manoeuvrability, e.g. chargelots (melee fodder that kills tanks quickly), blink stalkers (similar principle), maybe voids (which eat massive targets like thors and can still fly around tanks obviously), as well as the ability to go immortals and shrug off any damage above 10. With bio, you as a Terran have more mobility and generally have more guns to kill all sorts of targets.
Spontaneous question: can a fast thor rush still work against Toss (gold level and by work I mean pay off, not necessarily survive and win the game)? This is a strategy I used in December but somehow stopped. Mech is actually more vulnerable to Storm than bio, due to lower Ghost numbers, no healer unit, and an inability of Siege Tanks to, well, move out of Storm. It's another problem with mech, in that chip damage is hard to deal with unlike bio. As to Thor rush, I suppose it can still work fine. The only annoying thing about it is that anything that stops 1-1-1 stops Thor, and half the Protoss blind-counter 1-1-1. Might be more viable after 1-1-1 falls off the Protoss radar again.
Thanks. Off the top of your head, what would you say is a decent build to punish blind 1-1-1 countering by Protoss without gimping oneself too much?
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If a ghost and a high templar are running at each other, who emps/feedbacks first. I understand ghost have a longer range, but feedback is instant while emp is a projectile.
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On October 12 2011 09:26 hollabackk wrote:
If a ghost and a high templar are running at each other, who emps/feedbacks first. I understand ghost have a longer range, but feedback is instant while emp is a projectile.
EMP
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On October 12 2011 09:26 hollabackk wrote:
If a ghost and a high templar are running at each other, who emps/feedbacks first. I understand ghost have a longer range, but feedback is instant while emp is a projectile.
With perfect micro. The ghosts EMPs the HT first. Perfect micro meaning that the HT is hit by the very edge of the EMPs AOE.
Also, High Templars move incredibly slow, making it quite easy to EMP/Snipe and move away before the HT is ever in Feedback range.
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Thanks for your answers guys, very helpful.
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On October 12 2011 07:55 NewbieOne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 07:37 Scare_Crow wrote:On October 12 2011 06:38 NewbieOne wrote:
Ronald, mech doesn't necessarily suck against Toss but it's harder to pull off successfully than a biopush, due to lower survavibality vs early aggression. But you're happier with mech than with bio against colossi or HT. I suppose the problem with mech is Protoss's manoeuvrability, e.g. chargelots (melee fodder that kills tanks quickly), blink stalkers (similar principle), maybe voids (which eat massive targets like thors and can still fly around tanks obviously), as well as the ability to go immortals and shrug off any damage above 10. With bio, you as a Terran have more mobility and generally have more guns to kill all sorts of targets.
Spontaneous question: can a fast thor rush still work against Toss (gold level and by work I mean pay off, not necessarily survive and win the game)? This is a strategy I used in December but somehow stopped. Mech is actually more vulnerable to Storm than bio, due to lower Ghost numbers, no healer unit, and an inability of Siege Tanks to, well, move out of Storm. It's another problem with mech, in that chip damage is hard to deal with unlike bio. As to Thor rush, I suppose it can still work fine. The only annoying thing about it is that anything that stops 1-1-1 stops Thor, and half the Protoss blind-counter 1-1-1. Might be more viable after 1-1-1 falls off the Protoss radar again. Thanks. Off the top of your head, what would you say is a decent build to punish blind 1-1-1 countering by Protoss without gimping oneself too much?
MMMV actually. 1-1-1 is countered by super-early expansion (would already have paid for itself by the time 1-1-1 arrives), or by early Colossus tech. Both of these builds are vulnerable to 1. conc shell pressure timing, and 2. 2 medivac timing. You'll also have equal bases and a reactor'd Starport prepared.
The build I'm thinking is 2 rax FE, if you want to try to catch a 1 gate nexus, or straight up 1 rax FE (because you can drop your expo before his).
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I attempted to search for it already but I couldn't find the answer specifically.
When a pro is moving multiple dropships, or overlords, I can see them dropping units individually as the overlord/dropship moves. I can understand how this works with a single dropship, you click on the portrait of the unit in the dropship as it moves across.
How is this accomplished with multiples? Unless its the pro mass switching between dropships and spamming pictures.
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On October 12 2011 12:13 shuilanjiao wrote:
I attempted to search for it already but I couldn't find the answer specifically.
When a pro is moving multiple dropships, or overlords, I can see them dropping units individually as the overlord/dropship moves. I can understand how this works with a single dropship, you click on the portrait of the unit in the dropship as it moves across.
How is this accomplished with multiples? Unless its the pro mass switching between dropships and spamming pictures.
Despite this guy being banned I'm going to answer in case anyone else was wondering.
1) You can queue the drop commands using shift, so moving somewhere, shift clicking the portraits and then shift clicking somewhere else will make the drop ship move to a location, and then they will start dropping while moving to the second.
2) alternatively by having multiple drop ships selected you can issue a move-command and then press the drop command, then clicking the drop ships you would like to start dropping rather than the location you'd like them to drop, you can just do it multiple times for each drop ship.
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On October 12 2011 10:25 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 09:26 hollabackk wrote:
If a ghost and a high templar are running at each other, who emps/feedbacks first. I understand ghost have a longer range, but feedback is instant while emp is a projectile. With perfect micro. The ghosts EMPs the HT first. Perfect micro meaning that the HT is hit by the very edge of the EMPs AOE. Also, High Templars move incredibly slow, making it quite easy to EMP/Snipe and move away before the HT is ever in Feedback range.
You don't even need perfect micro, EMP range is 10 with radius of 2 so effectively 12, while feedback is only 9 and HTs are fucking slow. Ghost/EMP always wins unless you're not paying attention.
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As Random, is there a solid build per match-up (for nine total builds) that I can practice exclusively as I work on improving my macro before branching out and incorporating different strategies? Thanks!
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Suicide OL at 5:00 or quick Lair for the new Overseer/changeling combo?
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On October 12 2011 17:34 baba44713 wrote:
Suicide OL at 5:00 or quick Lair for the new Overseer/changeling combo?
Map and strategy dependent, if you like 2 base/fast lair then obviously the fast overseer is good, if you go 3 base then obviously you can't get a fast overseer so you should suicide the OL (or even 2). Also I say map dependent because if the main is really small like abyssal caverns then a suicide OL should be good, but if it's a big main like tal darim sometimes suicide OL won't even be able to see much.
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On October 11 2011 17:23 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:22 Scare_Crow wrote:On October 11 2011 04:13 saaaa wrote:
Why do the terran pro players like Mvp, MMA, Bomber and Puma their MediVacs with Bio in one control group?
In this case while stutter stepping they don't get healed by the MediVacs because they are on move command and don't heal.
I have big troubles to engage a 200/200 Protoss Deathball army. Can maybe someone explain a perfect engage in theory? Maybe with a replay?
Thanks Likely it's just to keep the Medivacs moving with the Bioball. If your Medivacs are healing while you're kiting, they get left behind and targeted by the Stalkers. In a Bioball, they're the hardest to replace (because your Starports have to also make Vikings in most cases), so I imagine the seconds of lost healing time is worth still having Medivacs at the end of a fight (they also can't heal if they're dead). Engaging large Protoss Deathball armies: ideal engagement is: Vikings over a cliff or chasm (ie. the center of Xel'Naga, the cliff between third and main on Shakuras), constantly picking at the Colossi. This minimizes the amount of Stalker retaliation, and also gets them jammed up and hopefully lets you peel off the Chargelots. Bioball/Medivacs are located in an open space that is off to the side of where the Vikings are, kiting back over and over to kill the meat shield Chargelots while minimizing the amount of free shots he can get on you while you're dealing with the Zealots, and make sure you minimize the amount of Colossi shots/Force Fields/Storms you're exposed to while doing this. Ghosts should be spread out. Ideally you want about half of them up front to knock out shields as Protoss moves in, before it can fan out to engage you. You want to fire your EMPs and then run your Ghosts behind your bioball. Important to keep a Ghost or two in the back, not participating, so you have an extra few EMPs to deal with the HTs that are likely also hanging back until the Protoss thinks you're out of EMP. Your bioball should ideally only commit after you pick off over half the Zealots and all the Colossi. Storms can be dodged if Chargelots are thinned out, but engaging while more than 2 Colossi are alive is murder unless he has no Chargelots and you have a ton of Marauders. Anyone know the Darglein Mirco Training Map? Can anyone make a replay of his engagement against the Protoss Deathball. This would be great I can beat Level 7... Thx
anyone? 
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Probably already answered somewhere but when is it preferable to use snipe instead of EMP on HT? Is snipe only better because you use less energy (2 snipes = 50 energy and 1 EMP = 75)?
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On October 13 2011 00:21 eugalp wrote:
Probably already answered somewhere but when is it preferable to use snipe instead of EMP on HT? Is snipe only better because you use less energy (2 snipes = 50 energy and 1 EMP = 75)?
When you want to kill the HT instead of making it useless for a while... usually when your army's not about to engage or there's only one HT that would be in range of EMP.
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On October 13 2011 00:21 eugalp wrote:
Probably already answered somewhere but when is it preferable to use snipe instead of EMP on HT? Is snipe only better because you use less energy (2 snipes = 50 energy and 1 EMP = 75)?
When to favor Snipe:
-When he knows your Ghost is there.
-When he tries to FB you.
-When he pre-spread all his HTs.
Or, to make everything simpler:
-When you cannot EMP more than 2 HTs.
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I have a few questions related to a two port marine-raven-banshee build I do PvT.
-What is the best position for my PDD to be placed with respect to the stalkers (assuming I'm at/outside his base)? I know not to drop middle-map, but on top of them, between ten and my banshees?
-What should I focus on microing? Marines away from zealots or focus firing stalkers with everything, or marines on stalkers/banshees on zealots?
-Should I lead with raven to drop PDD first, or banshees or marines?
Thanks for the help!
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EPT
