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On October 11 2011 17:59 Aiua wrote:I would really love if people could understand the anwser is YES : Reverting back to gateway, chronoboosting a unit then going to warp again and warping allow you to produce units faster since you are basicaly producing a unit at the same time the warpgate is cooling down. It's not used because it requires a lot of micro, and because the gain isnt huge, mostly because you lose a lot of time to go revert to gate then to warpgate , like 8 or 10 seconds. But still, in a lategame situation where you would need a huge production after a big fight, it could make a difference.
The answer is NO. Gate shuffling has been patched a long time ago.
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How do pros load and unload units from dropships so efficiently?
When you have a dropship selected, press D (it's D for me, but basicaly the drop order) and clic on the dropship, it will drop while moving.
By doing so you can drop with a lot of dropships at the same time without having to wait them to go to a specific location, like when you clic on the ground.
To load, just select all your units and right clic on the dropship.
If you want to load on many of them, you can shift+right clic and they will full every dropship.
Edit:
The answer is NO. Gate shuffling has been patched a long time ago.
What ? They removed one of the most skillfull thing a protoss can do ?
Ahaha ... my bad.
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On October 11 2011 19:50 junghansmega wrote:
At what time (supply) should a Zerg send out a scounting drone (ZvP, 4player map like lost temple, opening with 14gas, 14pool)?
Against a gate opening, you can rally your 14th drone as your scout and arrive at the protoss base before the zealot walls goes up in most cases. Against a FFE, rallying in your 14th drone should be early enough to assist in blocking the nexus from going down in addition to getting him into the base before a cannon goes down. If you suspect nexus first, you'll need to rally drone 10 over in order to block the nexus. Otherwise you can send your drone later without fear of retaliation.
Keep in mind that you should be able to keep the drone alive until your opponent produces a stalker or sentry which should give you a good bit of early scouting information.
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I have a little problem and i need some advice:
I am strugglinga bit in PvT (me beingthe protoss).
When the terran player goes for, for example: 5rax and a big marine / marauder push i am not really sure what to do to stop it and to counter it after i did.
I mean, the only way i can stop this is if i have my army in my main base and if i have a ramp to forefield. When i pushed him back i will most likely expand right away but i am not sure what to do to push back. He will have alot more units if he falls back to his base. I hope that someone can give me some advice in how to counter this kind of play 
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How do you tell between reactor hellion double expand, double reactor hellion, marauder hellion, hellion into banshee, or hellion into marine tank?
If scouting isn't possible, what is the best way of playing against a reactor hellion build that isn't coinflippy.
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On October 11 2011 23:50 Micket wrote:
How do you tell between reactor hellion double expand, double reactor hellion, marauder hellion, hellion into banshee, or hellion into marine tank?
If scouting isn't possible, what is the best way of playing against a reactor hellion build that isn't coinflippy.
It's almost impossible to know which it is unless you get an overlord in. The hellion count and the marine count should tell you how many raxes and factories there are. Basically, the moment the hellion numbers stop growing, you can assume hellion production has grown. At 6:00 when you suicide in an overlord, there should be 5 marines if the terran has gone for constant marine production off one rax. Any more marines betrays a second rax at least.
A second gas taken usually reveals either blue-flame drops or banshees.
A decent way to deal with any of these is 3 queens, a spine or two and a roach warren if the hellion count keeps climbing. Try to simcity off your front as well as possible. Keep your lings deep in creep or up your ramp, and if the hellions overstep unto creep, strike hard. "Stutter-step" your lings to surround the hellions on the move. I.e. click past the hellions, a-move, click past the hellions, a-move. You should be able to take out the hellions on creep out with minimal losses.
If anyone else has any other tips I'd be a happy camper.
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On October 11 2011 23:41 Nipje wrote:I have a little problem and i need some advice: I am strugglinga bit in PvT (me beingthe protoss). When the terran player goes for, for example: 5rax and a big marine / marauder push i am not really sure what to do to stop it and to counter it after i did. I mean, the only way i can stop this is if i have my army in my main base and if i have a ramp to forefield. When i pushed him back i will most likely expand right away but i am not sure what to do to push back. He will have alot more units if he falls back to his base. I hope that someone can give me some advice in how to counter this kind of play
Hard to say without having some idea of your build. However personally I like going early robo vs terran because it opens up observer for scouting, immortals for tanking damage and killing marauders and you can transition into colossi.
Sentries for force fields and guardian shield can be great as well. Especially if he starts to retreat because you may be able to cut off portions of his army as he tries to escape.
A replay might be helpful though
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On October 12 2011 00:18 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 23:41 Nipje wrote:I have a little problem and i need some advice: I am strugglinga bit in PvT (me beingthe protoss). When the terran player goes for, for example: 5rax and a big marine / marauder push i am not really sure what to do to stop it and to counter it after i did. I mean, the only way i can stop this is if i have my army in my main base and if i have a ramp to forefield. When i pushed him back i will most likely expand right away but i am not sure what to do to push back. He will have alot more units if he falls back to his base. I hope that someone can give me some advice in how to counter this kind of play Hard to say without having some idea of your build. However personally I like going early robo vs terran because it opens up observer for scouting, immortals for tanking damage and killing marauders and you can transition into colossi. Sentries for force fields and guardian shield can be great as well. Especially if he starts to retreat because you may be able to cut off portions of his army as he tries to escape. A replay might be helpful though
Hey mate, thanks for the reply. I agree on your early robo. I usually go 3gate robo expand. Sometimes i even take my robo after my 1st gate and cyber if i didn't see alot of my oppo's base.
The problem is that i am just not sure when i should go for a expansion. I am to scared that i will be behind in army. I will take a look if i have a replay somewhere.
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A simple trick you should remember :
When you lose a game and you don't know what you should have done, ask your opponent how does he lose with this strategy.
It's really usefull to get clues about what you did wrong (if he says same composition, it's micro, if he says more units, it's macro, if it's different unit it's probably scouting ...)
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On October 12 2011 00:04 kmh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 23:50 Micket wrote:
How do you tell between reactor hellion double expand, double reactor hellion, marauder hellion, hellion into banshee, or hellion into marine tank?
If scouting isn't possible, what is the best way of playing against a reactor hellion build that isn't coinflippy. It's almost impossible to know which it is unless you get an overlord in. The hellion count and the marine count should tell you how many raxes and factories there are. Basically, the moment the hellion numbers stop growing, you can assume hellion production has grown. At 6:00 when you suicide in an overlord, there should be 5 marines if the terran has gone for constant marine production off one rax. Any more marines betrays a second rax at least. A second gas taken usually reveals either blue-flame drops or banshees. A decent way to deal with any of these is 3 queens, a spine or two and a roach warren if the hellion count keeps climbing. Try to simcity off your front as well as possible. Keep your lings deep in creep or up your ramp, and if the hellions overstep unto creep, strike hard. "Stutter-step" your lings to surround the hellions on the move. I.e. click past the hellions, a-move, click past the hellions, a-move. You should be able to take out the hellions on creep out with minimal losses. If anyone else has any other tips I'd be a happy camper.
As a Masters Terran, I find that the best thing a Zerg can do against any Hellion opening is to just get to Spire tech. At that point, you can at least compete with the Terran at map control, get your third, and get a good scout with your Mutalisks (you'll also force him to show Marines or Thors, which reveals upgrades as well).
I would not recommend making any Roaches unless you're going to attack with them. The gas will delay your Mutalisks from becoming a credible threat to the Terran, and also gives a larger window when he can 2-prong you safely with a drop in the main and Hellions charging the front.
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As a Gold terran that uses hellion openings as a rule in every TvZ, I have the most problem with crawlers (especially when the placement is good but there aren't so many as to put the Zerg behind economically because of the cost) and wall-ins. Two queens sitting next to each other on the ramp leading to the main base can provide a wall-in if you have nothing else.
My own question, in turn, will relate to mutas. In my games, which are typically against gold and some silver opponents, I consistently run into a point where the opponent has the ability to make and abuse like 20 mutas, even if I put pressure on him, even if he botches a sixpool, whatever. I have variable luck dealing with it but no luck preventing it. I'm not one of those people who can stim and run around without feeling like they are doing something stupid and exhausting. Back in January, leaving a thor behind or putting up some turrets worked, these days muta players have better micro, better control, better judgement. And I rarely have enough marines to deal with the mutas on an equal footing. My question is therefore what do I do to negate or, better, prevent mutas from happening?
Also, how do I cost-effectively bring pain to a turtling Zerg (yes, turtling Zerg, lots of crawlers and cheap units, little way to drop or banshee harass (I did try Polt, it kinda worked but air is cost-inefficient vs Zerg ground army), no way to bust the front, tanks risky and needed in large numbers anyway). I know I can expand myself but I don't want him to keep droning until he decides to make 30 mutas and play funny.
On October 11 2011 23:50 Micket wrote:
How do you tell between reactor hellion double expand, double reactor hellion, marauder hellion, hellion into banshee, or hellion into marine tank?
If scouting isn't possible, what is the best way of playing against a reactor hellion build that isn't coinflippy.
Anything with reactor that comes fast needs to be done at the front of his base, so you should be able to scout the reactor easily (probably when it's building). If there's any add-on swapping where timings are crucial, it is also likely to be done near his wall-in, so you might see it. A starport will generally be built farther inside his base, so without an overlord you probably won't spot it (unless he's going for the fastest banshee timings possible). A factory without an addon produces either nothing or only hellions. A barracks without an addon does not produce marauders or obscene numbers of marines. A factory with a tech lab is a shot between thors and tanks (or a short-term blue flame research), he may have an armoury somewhere in his base if you scout with an overlord. Marine tank is generally so vanilla that you shouldn't really be preparing specially for it, I guess, as in you should be able to survive if you just react to it after seeing the first tank or two. Twoport banshee requires double gas, as does a lot of tanks or a hellion into thor transition. Reactor openings work out better with a single gas. Also, early factory may come with a refinery before barracks. Some of these builds may come without a complete early wall-in due to inability to invest 100 minerals in the depot before it's actually needed for supply (though typically an early factory will form a part of the wall-in). Hope this helps.
Question back at you: how does hellion banshee make your life difficult? I've been thinking about doing it but haven't had the opportunity yet.
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I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them?
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On October 12 2011 03:35 NewbieOne wrote:
My own question, in turn, will relate to mutas. In my games, which are typically against gold and some silver opponents, I consistently run into a point where the opponent has the ability to make and abuse like 20 mutas, even if I put pressure on him, even if he botches a sixpool, whatever. I have variable luck dealing with it but no luck preventing it. I'm not one of those people who can stim and run around without feeling like they are doing something stupid and exhausting. Back in January, leaving a thor behind or putting up some turrets worked, these days muta players have better micro, better control, better judgement. And I rarely have enough marines to deal with the mutas on an equal footing. My question is therefore what do I do to negate or, better, prevent mutas from happening?
A Zerg will eventually get 20+ Mutas just like how a Terran will eventually get Stim Pack, and Protoss will eventually get Zealot Charge. At some point you are just going to have the resources to make those units no matter how much you are harassed, and how slowly you make them. Stopping a Zerg from having 20+ Mutalisks would require constant, constant killing of Mutalisks (or straight up murdering him before 15 minutes).
If you feel stupid Stimming, it's probably because you don't have enough Medivacs. 1 Medivac and 12-16 Marines in a control group sitting on your natural ramp should be able to cover both your main and your natural. The Missile Turrets are there to stall his Mutalisks and discourage small numbers from running around (similar to Protoss Photon Cannons to Terran drops). Get used to rebuilding Turrets, SCVs, repairing burning buildings and protecting add-ons: its as bread-and-butter to TvZ as stutter-step.
If your Marines are somehow not trading favorably with Mutalisks, you are not upgrading enough. 12 Marines won't beat 20 Mutalisks, but you can make 12 Marines in 30 seconds from now until you've mined out the last 50 minerals of your last base, while he cannot replace Mutas nearly as well, unless you're letting his Muta harass lock your entire army in your base so he mass-expands.
Sending Marine-Hellion armies out to constantly mess with Zerg is good, if you don't have the control for Tanks, or don't feel like you can make much of a push. SC2 is a huge control battle, you need to keep your units doing stuff, just like he's doing with his Mutas.
On October 12 2011 03:51 gondolin wrote:
I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them?
Wait, what? If you have that many Banelings that you can still kill the T even if you're throwing the Banelings at them on a silver platter, they either can't micro, you're leagues ahead, or you just sunk all your gas into Banelings and are suffering from a huge tech/army deficit.
Losing half your Banelings before they even hit Marines is terrible. Every 4 Banelings is 1 Mutalisk you will never have. You don't want them to target your Banelings!
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On October 12 2011 03:51 gondolin wrote:
I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them?
O.o
i think you're severely misunderstanding zvt. You want to get the best use out of your blings and mutas - the lings are the meatshield that is going to die anyway. Their purpose is to flank/cut off retreat so the blings can run in and kill marines so mutas can clean up the rest. You don't want to throw away the gas you spent on banelings by having them die before they kill anything.
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On October 12 2011 04:25 Vod.kaholic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 03:51 gondolin wrote:
I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them? O.o i think you're severely misunderstanding zvt. You want to get the best use out of your blings and mutas - the lings are the meatshield that is going to die anyway. Their purpose is to flank/cut off retreat so the blings can run in and kill marines so mutas can clean up the rest. You don't want to throw away the gas you spent on banelings by having them die before they kill anything.
Of course, sorry if I explained myself badly. The question is: when you move your bannelings, do you ever have to attack move or detonate manually? Or will the ai target fire close banelings prioritarely?
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On October 12 2011 05:49 gondolin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 04:25 Vod.kaholic wrote:On October 12 2011 03:51 gondolin wrote:
I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them? O.o i think you're severely misunderstanding zvt. You want to get the best use out of your blings and mutas - the lings are the meatshield that is going to die anyway. Their purpose is to flank/cut off retreat so the blings can run in and kill marines so mutas can clean up the rest. You don't want to throw away the gas you spent on banelings by having them die before they kill anything. Of course, sorry if I explained myself badly. The question is: when you move your bannelings, do you ever have to attack move or detonate manually? Or will the ai target fire close banelings prioritarely?
Banelings, Mutas and Lings (and all attacking units basically) have the same target priority, and the closest target will be attacked first.
Send your lings in first (and never engage in a straight line, spread your units and attack from multiple angles) with your banelings and mutas very close behind. Get a surround with your lings, roll in with banelings, and try to retain muta numbers by NOT having them lead the charge.
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On October 12 2011 05:49 gondolin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 04:25 Vod.kaholic wrote:On October 12 2011 03:51 gondolin wrote:
I am a terran player but sometimes I play Z for fun. In ZvT when I go lings/blings/mutas it is obviously better to just move the blings in order to soak up damage (since they will detonate anyway). But do they take priority over lings and mutas, or do I need to be sure to send them first so they are targeted (and not my lings)? Do you sometime detonate them manually when they are close to the marines or do you wait for the opponent to kill them? O.o i think you're severely misunderstanding zvt. You want to get the best use out of your blings and mutas - the lings are the meatshield that is going to die anyway. Their purpose is to flank/cut off retreat so the blings can run in and kill marines so mutas can clean up the rest. You don't want to throw away the gas you spent on banelings by having them die before they kill anything. Of course, sorry if I explained myself badly. The question is: when you move your bannelings, do you ever have to attack move or detonate manually? Or will the ai target fire close banelings prioritarely?
As to your question about Baneling control: manual detonation should only be used on baneling landmines, money-shotting scv clusters, or against DTs without detection (or a ton of them against Ghosts, I suppose, but that's not very economical).
If your Lings get the surround on Terran, A-Moving Banelings is fine. If they're split, A-Moving Banelings a small group at a time is also feasible to spread them to hit the Marines. If the Terran has Armored units in front of his Marines (Tanks, Marauders), its best to right click behind his army, and then A-Move when your Banelings are about 1/3 to 1/2 looped around the army (if surrounded by Lings). Also, move command your Lings away (ie. behind his army) when your Blings are close, as they get much better splash if they detonate instead of being blown up running in circles around the surrounding Lings.
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Hi guys, I have two simple questions:
1) Why does mech suck so bad against Toss in TvP?
2) Why does Blizzard list Void Rays as being weak against Phoenix? (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/void-ray)
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Does anyone know where I can find a VOD of the SECOND player panel at IPL? The one with Incontrol and MC on it? Would really appreciate that, thanks.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 12 2011 06:17 RonaldTimmins wrote:
Hi guys, I have two simple questions:
1) Why does mech suck so bad against Toss in TvP?
2) Why does Blizzard list Void Rays as being weak against Phoenix? (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/void-ray)
Mech has difficulties against Toss for a number of reasons, probably best viewed as a juxtaposition from BW, in which Mech was not only viable but standard TvP.
1) No more spider mines: this means that factory units can't really detect, and it's hard to get anti-stalker/anti-dragoon map control-- hellions alone have trouble against stalkers.
2) Melee units are smarter: zealots are better at getting onto unis and hitting them.
3) Legitimate Stargate-tech Air-To-Surface firepower: Scouts and Corsairs were not known for their ability to shoot ground units with effectiveness. Protoss had to tech to Fleet Beacon (and beyond) to really have good Air-to-Surface firepower.
4) Lack of Legitimate Factory-tech Surface-to-Air firepower: Thors are strong, but lack the solid long-range viking-like AA that goliaths provided. Although Vikings are great, you can't convert all your factories over to viking production like you could with goliaths in BW.
5) New protoss Robo units: Colossus is much more mobile than reaver, and Immortal... well Immortal EXISTS, and these are both more viable now
6) Blink and Charge replacing Legs: With these high-mobility options for Protoss Gateway units, after a certain part of the game what would normally be a positional battle becomes a positional struggle for Terran Mech.
7) Bio is really really good: Bio is good, mobile, and now has EMP (rather than starport), making it really really good compared to Mech.
All these things individually might not have stopped Mech, but in conjunction make it a difficult build to use. That being said, outside of the highest level, mixed Mech can be done, and on certain maps, mech timing pushes remains trong.
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EPT
