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Is it possible to play Protoss at the highest level (code s would be the highest level) by just being a macro toss, and not going into a game with a timing attack? As in just macroing with bit of harass (probably by a warpprism now) and punishing the opponent if they do something risky.
I know this question may be controverial at its roots, but I just feel like all protoss players ever do in the gsl is have a set time that they will attack before the game has even begun, and it either works or it doesnt. I rarely ever see a protoss just straight macro'ing, apart from some pvt's. It really makes me think that protoss isnt as good in a macro game, and only by a timing attack can they win at the highest level.
If my fear is true, then I really dont want to play protoss anymore, because I cant stand timing attacks, unless its to punish a greedy playstyle
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No you cant.
In PVP, If someone scouts the other beign passive to macro, he'll punish him.
In PvZ/T you can play macro, you dont have to quit the race because you dont like timings. Most protosses open FFE vs Zerg.
All the races do timings tho, if you don't like 1 base timings in mirror matchups, go play zerg in broodwar.
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On October 11 2011 04:53 DW-Unrec wrote:
No you cant.
In PVP, If someone scouts the other beign passive to macro, he'll punish him.
In PvZ/T you can play macro, you dont have to quit the race because you dont like timings. Most protosses open FFE vs Zerg.
All the races do timings tho, if you don't like 1 base timings in mirror matchups, go play zerg in broodwar.
Yea but it seems like after a ffe you transition into 7gate which is a timing attack, or into stargate play which is pretty reliant on doing alot of damage.
I do agree fully that pvp at this point in time is all about the timing attacks
I would argue that it is very possible to play macro terran, because you have good harass and good defenses. And as zerg to, most pros just play a reactionary style
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On October 11 2011 04:44 Imbak333 wrote:
Is it possible to play Protoss at the highest level (code s would be the highest level) by just being a macro toss, and not going into a game with a timing attack? As in just macroing with bit of harass (probably by a warpprism now) and punishing the opponent if they do something risky.
I know this question may be controverial at its roots, but I just feel like all protoss players ever do in the gsl is have a set time that they will attack before the game has even begun, and it either works or it doesnt. I rarely ever see a protoss just straight macro'ing, apart from some pvt's. It really makes me think that protoss isnt as good in a macro game, and only by a timing attack can they win at the highest level.
If my fear is true, then I really dont want to play protoss anymore, because I cant stand timing attacks, unless its to punish a greedy playstyle
Every race does timing attacks, otherwise Zerg would just straight up crush everyone with 12 Broodlords at 19 minutes. 
Timing attacks are just attacks that happen at times that favor you or disfavor your opponent. They're just normal attacks! Not some special tactic or game-changing strategy. Timing attacks aren't all-in, and they increase your lead by doing damage when you are strong or they are weak. They don't stop you from macroing at all, and NOT expanding behind an attack is actually discouraged in most cases.
If you just want to sit there and get to 3+ mining bases and roll out at 200 or never, then perhaps you should play Zerg. It's really the only race that can support that type of style (not saying that's their signature style, but they're the only one that can conceivably pull it off without being completely screwed over, and even then, they have to harass like mad with muta/ling).
On October 11 2011 04:32 Klyberess wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:13 Scare_Crow wrote:
Thanks, guys. I'll give Ghosts another rethink, as I realized that a 2 base Colossus timing push would come way later than a 2 base Immortal timing push. I'll try to get Ghosts before 10 and then rush Starport after 2 Ghosts. If I'm still having trouble, I'll start an actual thread with replays. personally I prefer to do some dropping and only add ghosts as I take my third, so I'd really prefer if we could stop immortal pushes with starport tech, or at the very least find a reliable way of scouting it before putting down starport.
The only thing I can think of is skipping Marauders completely and run Stim and Combat Shield together while massing a ton of Marines with Medivac support. But that's not a good set-up into the late-game, which has so much AOE for Protoss that Marauders are much more important.
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In pvp, What is the best unit composition to fight collossus?
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On October 11 2011 05:16 Scare_Crow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:44 Imbak333 wrote:
Is it possible to play Protoss at the highest level (code s would be the highest level) by just being a macro toss, and not going into a game with a timing attack? As in just macroing with bit of harass (probably by a warpprism now) and punishing the opponent if they do something risky.
I know this question may be controverial at its roots, but I just feel like all protoss players ever do in the gsl is have a set time that they will attack before the game has even begun, and it either works or it doesnt. I rarely ever see a protoss just straight macro'ing, apart from some pvt's. It really makes me think that protoss isnt as good in a macro game, and only by a timing attack can they win at the highest level.
If my fear is true, then I really dont want to play protoss anymore, because I cant stand timing attacks, unless its to punish a greedy playstyle Every race does timing attacks, otherwise Zerg would just straight up crush everyone with 12 Broodlords at 19 minutes. Timing attacks are just attacks that happen at times that favor you or disfavor your opponent. They're just normal attacks! Not some special tactic or game-changing strategy. Timing attacks aren't all-in, and they increase your lead by doing damage when you are strong or they are weak. They don't stop you from macroing at all, and NOT expanding behind an attack is actually discouraged in most cases. If you just want to sit there and get to 3+ mining bases and roll out at 200 or never, then perhaps you should play Zerg. It's really the only race that can support that type of style (not saying that's their signature style, but they're the only one that can conceivably pull it off without being completely screwed over, and even then, they have to harass like mad with muta/ling). .
Hm, interesting.
i think the only reason that my playstyle is that way is because I have played zerg for a year now, and only just wanted to switch to toss now. I played zerg completely reactionary, never attacking first, probably because I just hate cheese so much I didnt want to be a hypocrite
I have never even gone into a game with a plan. I dont even know how I'll go about doing it otherwise ('0_0) tips helping to do so would really help!
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On October 11 2011 06:00 Imbak333 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 05:16 Scare_Crow wrote:On October 11 2011 04:44 Imbak333 wrote:
Is it possible to play Protoss at the highest level (code s would be the highest level) by just being a macro toss, and not going into a game with a timing attack? As in just macroing with bit of harass (probably by a warpprism now) and punishing the opponent if they do something risky.
I know this question may be controverial at its roots, but I just feel like all protoss players ever do in the gsl is have a set time that they will attack before the game has even begun, and it either works or it doesnt. I rarely ever see a protoss just straight macro'ing, apart from some pvt's. It really makes me think that protoss isnt as good in a macro game, and only by a timing attack can they win at the highest level.
If my fear is true, then I really dont want to play protoss anymore, because I cant stand timing attacks, unless its to punish a greedy playstyle Every race does timing attacks, otherwise Zerg would just straight up crush everyone with 12 Broodlords at 19 minutes. Timing attacks are just attacks that happen at times that favor you or disfavor your opponent. They're just normal attacks! Not some special tactic or game-changing strategy. Timing attacks aren't all-in, and they increase your lead by doing damage when you are strong or they are weak. They don't stop you from macroing at all, and NOT expanding behind an attack is actually discouraged in most cases. If you just want to sit there and get to 3+ mining bases and roll out at 200 or never, then perhaps you should play Zerg. It's really the only race that can support that type of style (not saying that's their signature style, but they're the only one that can conceivably pull it off without being completely screwed over, and even then, they have to harass like mad with muta/ling). . Hm, interesting. i think the only reason that my playstyle is that way is because I have played zerg for a year now, and only just wanted to switch to toss now. I played zerg completely reactionary, never attacking first, probably because I just hate cheese so much I didnt want to be a hypocrite I have never even gone into a game with a plan. I dont even know how I'll go about doing it otherwise ('0_0) tips helping to do so would really help!
Well the usual game plan in PvZ is to FFE no matter what and proceed to do a timing push to delay zerg macro while getting a third at ~11 to 14 min mark. Ideal end-game composition can be vary a lot but you'll usually want to have either colossus, high templar or archons in your army.
In PvT, do some sort of 1 gate expand. Hold off any early aggression while teching up to high templars. Take your third (ideally) before the terran, can be as early as 9:30 like SaSe does it. Aim for an endgame composition of zealot/hightemplar. Switch between colossus and high templar when your opponent gets too many ghosts or vikings.
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On October 11 2011 05:24 gejfsyd wrote:
In pvp, What is the best unit composition to fight collossus?
If its one base colossus and you opened with 2-3gate stargate then phoenix will do just fine.
If you also opened with robo then make colossi yourself (few immortals wont hurt) and be defensive - that way u will have better concave and your units wont clump up as your opponent units will (cause attacker has dissadvantage in this case).
If its late game (2-3 base pvp) you also should go for colossi, eventually u can go chargelot archon but you need good flank to win with that.
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Simplified question. in P v T or Z robotics build, is it better to start with an Observer and get scouting info, or to get the immortal and be safer with a another attacking unit. I have seen pros go either way. This is under the assumption that lings or a wall is preventing scouting.
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On October 11 2011 08:32 EclipZe wrote:
Simplified question. in P v T or Z robotics build, is it better to start with an Observer and get scouting info, or to get the immortal and be safer with a another attacking unit. I have seen pros go either way. This is under the assumption that lings or a wall is preventing scouting.
If you are expecting a timing attack or all-in, it is better to get the immortal first for that security. Otherwise, you want the observer first so that you can get information as soon as possible, and make decisions based on that.
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On October 11 2011 09:56 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 08:32 EclipZe wrote:
Simplified question. in P v T or Z robotics build, is it better to start with an Observer and get scouting info, or to get the immortal and be safer with a another attacking unit. I have seen pros go either way. This is under the assumption that lings or a wall is preventing scouting. If you are expecting a timing attack or all-in, it is better to get the immortal first for that security. Otherwise, you want the observer first so that you can get information as soon as possible, and make decisions based on that.
This is actually a big issue in PvP because it's not always safe to move around the map and you won't know if a blink all-in is coming until it's at your door. But in TvP you can have much better early game map awareness and you should always start your obs first, and if you see an attack coming you can opt to cancel it and chrono out an immortal instead. In PvZ... what kind of build gets a super fast robo anyway? Obs first.
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At a high level on Tal'darim Altar, why dont zergs do a timing to bust a cybercore when warpgate is 50-80% done (roughly 7 minute mark) with banelings? It takes a total of 6 banelings and a handful of lings to delay ANY sort of timing attack, as well as threaten the protoss, forcing him to make cannons behind, but in reality zerg continues on with hard macro? It seems if zerg wants to go into the straight ling-infestor style that is popular this would definitely help as the only timings to punish such a build when a toss FFE's are warpgate pushes.
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What is the safest way to FE in TvT that doesn't involve applying early pressure?
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On October 11 2011 11:41 SaroVati wrote:
At a high level on Tal'darim Altar, why dont zergs do a timing to bust a cybercore when warpgate is 50-80% done (roughly 7 minute mark) with banelings? It takes a total of 6 banelings and a handful of lings to delay ANY sort of timing attack, as well as threaten the protoss, forcing him to make cannons behind, but in reality zerg continues on with hard macro? It seems if zerg wants to go into the straight ling-infestor style that is popular this would definitely help as the only timings to punish such a build when a toss FFE's are warpgate pushes.
The Cybernetics Core has 1100 health in total, it'd take a very large amount of Banelings to kill the Core. Speedlings will not be able to kill the Core if he made any Sentries, so you're either committing a huge amount of early gas and larva to stall him for ~2 minutes and give him free reign to do whatever he wants for a while, or you devote an average amount of gas and a lot of larva to maybe delay his timing if he wasn't watching or skipped Sentries altogether (unlikely).
On October 11 2011 12:41 MysteryHours wrote:
What is the safest way to FE in TvT that doesn't involve applying early pressure?
Reaper expand into 3 rax.
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On October 11 2011 11:41 SaroVati wrote:
At a high level on Tal'darim Altar, why dont zergs do a timing to bust a cybercore when warpgate is 50-80% done (roughly 7 minute mark) with banelings? It takes a total of 6 banelings and a handful of lings to delay ANY sort of timing attack, as well as threaten the protoss, forcing him to make cannons behind, but in reality zerg continues on with hard macro? It seems if zerg wants to go into the straight ling-infestor style that is popular this would definitely help as the only timings to punish such a build when a toss FFE's are warpgate pushes.
Baneling busting a Cyber Core is not really a good strategy. It's only going to work if the Protoss isn't paying any attention. If I see a pack of Banelings coming my way, I'll just let half of them suicide against my Core and then drop two Force Fields to keep any more from hitting it, and that basically ends the attack.
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On October 11 2011 04:22 Scare_Crow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:13 saaaa wrote:
Why do the terran pro players like Mvp, MMA, Bomber and Puma their MediVacs with Bio in one control group?
In this case while stutter stepping they don't get healed by the MediVacs because they are on move command and don't heal.
I have big troubles to engage a 200/200 Protoss Deathball army. Can maybe someone explain a perfect engage in theory? Maybe with a replay?
Thanks Likely it's just to keep the Medivacs moving with the Bioball. If your Medivacs are healing while you're kiting, they get left behind and targeted by the Stalkers. In a Bioball, they're the hardest to replace (because your Starports have to also make Vikings in most cases), so I imagine the seconds of lost healing time is worth still having Medivacs at the end of a fight (they also can't heal if they're dead). Engaging large Protoss Deathball armies: ideal engagement is: Vikings over a cliff or chasm (ie. the center of Xel'Naga, the cliff between third and main on Shakuras), constantly picking at the Colossi. This minimizes the amount of Stalker retaliation, and also gets them jammed up and hopefully lets you peel off the Chargelots. Bioball/Medivacs are located in an open space that is off to the side of where the Vikings are, kiting back over and over to kill the meat shield Chargelots while minimizing the amount of free shots he can get on you while you're dealing with the Zealots, and make sure you minimize the amount of Colossi shots/Force Fields/Storms you're exposed to while doing this. Ghosts should be spread out. Ideally you want about half of them up front to knock out shields as Protoss moves in, before it can fan out to engage you. You want to fire your EMPs and then run your Ghosts behind your bioball. Important to keep a Ghost or two in the back, not participating, so you have an extra few EMPs to deal with the HTs that are likely also hanging back until the Protoss thinks you're out of EMP. Your bioball should ideally only commit after you pick off over half the Zealots and all the Colossi. Storms can be dodged if Chargelots are thinned out, but engaging while more than 2 Colossi are alive is murder unless he has no Chargelots and you have a ton of Marauders.
Anyone know the Darglein Mirco Training Map? Can anyone make a replay of his engagement against the Protoss Deathball. This would be great
I can beat Level 7...
Thx
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Is there ever a reason to revert a warpgate back into a gateway?
I would really love if people could understand the anwser is YES :
Reverting back to gateway, chronoboosting a unit then going to warp again and warping allow you to produce units faster since you are basicaly producing a unit at the same time the warpgate is cooling down.
It's not used because it requires a lot of micro, and because the gain isnt huge, mostly because you lose a lot of time to go revert to gate then to warpgate , like 8 or 10 seconds.
But still, in a lategame situation where you would need a huge production after a big fight, it could make a difference.
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Apart from the day9 videos, any other place to watch for more information about mechanics?
I just want to know what the others are using while playing, to maybe get a couple of things on my gameplay.
Thx a lot for your time!
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How do pros load and unload units from dropships so efficiently?
What are the methods they use to do this? Right clicks? Shift clicks? Etc.
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At what time (supply) should a Zerg send out a scounting drone (ZvP, 4player map like lost temple, opening with 14gas, 14pool)?
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EPT
