EPTIs this a viable strategy for Zerg players considering the amount of minerals lost by cancelling a Hatch and placing down an Evolution Chamber?
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jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
Is this a viable strategy for Zerg players considering the amount of minerals lost by cancelling a Hatch and placing down an Evolution Chamber? | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On September 04 2011 04:11 jhNz wrote: Recently I saw a replay of a PvZ in which the Protoss went for a Pylon and a Forge at his natural on Shattered Temple. The Zerg scouted him early and reacted to this by putting down a Hatchery at the Protoss' natural only to cancel it and place down an Evolution Chamber on the remaining creep to block off the Nexus. This was before the first cannon was placed by the Protoss. The Protoss reacted by putting down Gateways instead of the Nexus. He wasn't able to put down his Nexus until the 6-minute mark. Is this a viable strategy for Zerg players considering the amount of minerals lost by cancelling a Hatch and placing down an Evolution Chamber? I fooled around with this a bit and I don't think it really pays off. It can throw you opponent off if he doesn't react accordingly, but I don't suggest dong it, since you simply cannot not spend your minerals in hopes to scout him frist so you might be possible to do it. You're delaying your own hatchery as well and even if you manage to pull it off it doesn't give you that much of an advantage imo (high masters). | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On September 04 2011 05:07 decaf wrote: I fooled around with this a bit and I don't think it really pays off. It can throw you opponent off if he doesn't react accordingly, but I don't suggest dong it, since you simply cannot not spend your minerals in hopes to scout him frist so you might be possible to do it. You're delaying your own hatchery as well and even if you manage to pull it off it doesn't give you that much of an advantage imo (high masters). I've messed around with it too, and the major issue with it, as decaf was getting at, you either: A) sacrafice your 15 hatch timing B) Don't throw it down in time (the nexus is already up). If your opponent delays the nexus for whatever reason then it is doable, but you'd be surprised how quickly evo chambers die when you factor in the passive damage they take off of creep. I remember one game on tal'darim where I was planning for a fast 3rd hatch (on 21 supply) and instead put it to block my opponent's nexus, for some reason he went forge->gate->cannon->nexus so I had time. When I went back to watch the replay I noticed how remarkably even we were in the end. | ||
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armageddonsoon
United States6 Posts
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jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
On September 04 2011 06:45 Soluhwin wrote: I've messed around with it too, and the major issue with it, as decaf was getting at, you either: A) sacrafice your 15 hatch timing B) Don't throw it down in time (the nexus is already up). If your opponent delays the nexus for whatever reason then it is doable, but you'd be surprised how quickly evo chambers die when you factor in the passive damage they take off of creep. I remember one game on tal'darim where I was planning for a fast 3rd hatch (on 21 supply) and instead put it to block my opponent's nexus, for some reason he went forge->gate->cannon->nexus so I had time. When I went back to watch the replay I noticed how remarkably even we were in the end. Thanks for fast answers and insight guys!  | ||
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KarlMax
France10 Posts
What are the little numbers next to players' names in the GSL matches ? What do they mean ? | ||
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RudePlague
Great Britain113 Posts
On September 04 2011 08:42 KarlMax wrote: Hey guys, i can't find it anywhere and i have no clue : What are the little numbers next to players' names in the GSL matches ? What do they mean ? It's their position based on a clock. i.e. 12 would mean at the top centre like one of the bases on metalopolis. | ||
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Intensity
53 Posts
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
On September 04 2011 12:16 Intensity wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253098Can someone please direct me to an indepth guide to the 1/1/1 build that everyone says is imbalanced? I think its banshee / marine / tank push against tos @ a point in the game where they don't have much to combat it. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On September 03 2011 22:40 Kambing wrote: You're correct that you can only see your complete w:l in masters and gm. Most likely they use a 3rd party program, e.g., sc2gears to keep track of their w:l by automatically managing their replays. So that is what they use when they say they have 70% win in TvZ etc? 3rd party program? | ||
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Warnipple
Canada57 Posts
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
On September 04 2011 16:14 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: You're making it sound like sc2gears is a bad thing. All it does is store, sort and anaylse replays. I'd recommend it to just about everyone. But yeah, they probably check through sc2gears to see their win rate. So that is what they use when they say they have 70% win in TvZ etc? 3rd party program? | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 04 2011 16:14 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: So that is what they use when they say they have 70% win in TvZ etc? 3rd party program? To be clear, mostly when people say they have a 70% win rate against whatever, they're talking out their asses to make themselves sound more credible in a strategy discussion. If you want an accurate assessment of your win rates, though, SC2Gears is definately the gold standard for doing any analysis of that sort. | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
Recently i've just been losing every game i play. hard. For the life of me i can't figure out why. I 3 gate expo vs. zerg, and i'm often on the same number of bases as them, yet i always get out massed. In PvPs i'm always 1 base ahead. Always outmassed. PvT I 1 gate FE. Apparently that can hold off any early pushes, yet i got completely destroyed by 3 rax terran. Who was random. From writing it down it looks like i just need to improve my macro, so has anyone got a good Protoss build order that i can use to practise macro with? Ideally one that can go against all races. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On September 04 2011 20:26 ThyLastPenguin wrote: Hey everyone, i have yet another question Recently i've just been losing every game i play. hard. For the life of me i can't figure out why. I 3 gate expo vs. zerg, and i'm often on the same number of bases as them, yet i always get out massed. In PvPs i'm always 1 base ahead. Always outmassed. PvT I 1 gate FE. Apparently that can hold off any early pushes, yet i got completely destroyed by 3 rax terran. Who was random. From writing it down it looks like i just need to improve my macro, so has anyone got a good Protoss build order that i can use to practise macro with? Ideally one that can go against all races. From reading this, it sounds like you're doing one of two fundamental errors: 1) You have more income than your opponent, but you're not spending it. Look to see if you're banking resources towards the end of the game. 2) You're spending your money, but not getting enough. Even if you're up on bases, you need probes to saturate it to gain that extra income. If you're not constantly producing probes then you won't get the income you need. Look at the "resources" score in the post-game score screen, that number is just minerals spent+vespean gas spent. If you find that your resources score is always below your opponent's, then you've made some sort of fundamental macro mistake. | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
On September 04 2011 20:47 Soluhwin wrote: From reading this, it sounds like you're doing one of two fundamental errors: 1) You have more income than your opponent, but you're not spending it. Look to see if you're banking resources towards the end of the game. 2) You're spending your money, but not getting enough. Even if you're up on bases, you need probes to saturate it to gain that extra income. If you're not constantly producing probes then you won't get the income you need. Look at the "resources" score in the post-game score screen, that number is just minerals spent+vespean gas spent. If you find that your resources score is always below your opponent's, then you've made some sort of fundamental macro mistake. Ok thanks, I've noticed i'm not spending enough, and i think my minerals do start to float a bit. So im assuming this means macro>Micro in this league? :p And also, does anybody have a good build order for macro practising vs. all races? | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 04 2011 21:17 ThyLastPenguin wrote: Ok thanks, I've noticed i'm not spending enough, and i think my minerals do start to float a bit. So im assuming this means macro>Micro in this league? :p And also, does anybody have a good build order for macro practising vs. all races? Macro > micro in every league. Simple math: is it better to control your Stalkers just perfectly so that you lose none where you might have lost 2, or to have a higher income and faster production cycles so that you just have 12 more? Micro is important in games between players of equal skill because it gives you an edge over an opponent whose macro is as good as yours, but it won't often give you enough of an edge to make up for bad macro. I don't know what level you're at, but I know that in bronze->gold, if you play with good macro you can get a good win rate just massing up to 200/200 and a-moving your opponent, because players in lower leagues have such poor macro that they'll simply be vastly behind a player with good macro after 15 minutes of play. All non-cheese build orders are good for macro practice, but there aren't really any good BOs that work in all three matchups. Just pick a BO that is safe and not too micro-focused (for example, I would stay away from air play in PvZ, since it requires you to spend a lot of APM on air harass), and focus intensely on always making Probes and always spending all of your money. | ||
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Grani
Germany50 Posts
I want to show you a Replay of holding off an 111 build. As I saw it I, immediately teched up to storm and defended the push. We are both at platinum but I need your opinion, if fast storm is in general a good solution for 111. He didn't send any SCV's though and I made a lot of mistakes after his push, but watch yourself. [url blocked] | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 04 2011 22:43 Grani wrote: Hello everyone, I want to show you a Replay of holding off an 111 build. As I saw it I, immediately teched up to storm and defended the push. We are both at platinum but I need your opinion, if fast storm is in general a good solution for 111. He didn't send any SCV's though and I made a lot of mistakes after his push, but watch yourself. [url blocked] 1) Teching to storm that quickly makes you very susceptible to early pressure and earlier pushes, and the 1/1/1 push has a variety of timing attacks between 8:00 and 11:00. 2) Try using a site specifically for sc2 replays, like drop.sc, rather than a general file hosting site. | ||
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