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On September 03 2011 05:13 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 05:03 Soluhwin wrote:On September 03 2011 03:25 xre wrote:
Hi guys, I'm sorry the question might sound a bit too generic... But I think it can be answered pretty easily. And I don't feel it's necessary to start a new thread just for this.
Being back from holiday plus a long SC2 break and willing to come back to business, could you please tell me what currently are the best builds / openings (simply one per match-up, I play Z) I could practice hard in order to improve ?
I was thinking about something like this, for instance :
ZvT : 16hatch 15pool 14gas
ZvZ : 10gas 10pool
ZvP : 14gas 14pool 19hatch
?
Thanks ! ZvZ: 15g 14p 15h Isn't 14 gas > 15 gas, for the simple reason that at ~13-14 food you are already floating 100-150 minerals? Waiting another drone before starting your gas is literally doing nothing but slowing down your zergling speed. If you want to delay your gas that long, then just get your pool first, you'll have the minerals.
I've worked the timings out through my own testing. The reason I do this is because if you gas on 14 then you can't afford ling speed, 4 lings, and a queen all at once if you also went hatch on 15. I usually opted to get both lings and queen in favor of delaying speed, so it only made sense to delay the gas. You are effectively throwing them both down at once, though.
Oh, and 15h 16p in ZvT is incredibly risky, you will lose every game to a properly executed bunker rush.15h/15p or better yet 15h/14p is much safer.
Pardon me if I'm being rude but, you're not speaking from experience, are you? Regardless on when you throw down your pool after hatch, you will need to defend with drones against the initial pressure. Going 2 drones before pool just allows you to have more of a cushion as to how many drones you can lose and still not be too too far behind.
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On September 03 2011 03:25 xre wrote:
Hi guys, I'm sorry the question might sound a bit too generic... But I think it can be answered pretty easily. And I don't feel it's necessary to start a new thread just for this.
Being back from holiday plus a long SC2 break and willing to come back to business, could you please tell me what currently are the best builds / openings (simply one per match-up, I play Z) I could practice hard in order to improve ?
I was thinking about something like this, for instance :
ZvT : 16hatch 15pool 14gas
ZvZ : 10gas 10pool
ZvP : 14gas 14pool 19hatch
?
Thanks !
What build you use depends on your style of play. For the standard passive/macro game I'd suggest the following:
Hatch first vs Terran doable, so it's current metagame. You don't exactly need the early gas, though (but that's up to you). He can try to block your hatch, but it's easier to deal with than protoss (as in, you can kill the SCV if it starts building something).
Hatch first vs Toss is also doable, but only if he doesn't scout you first. Just beware the dreaded cannon rush! You can pool first if you're afraid of cannons. I see no reason for an early gas against a FFE, but you can get it vs a regular gate/core opening if you're really scared of the stalker poke.
Gas/Pool expand at 21 vs Zerg is the norm, but you can hatch first if you want (on big maps). It's gonna be a real pain dealing with sling/bling, though.
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ZvT : 16hatch 15pool 14gas
I dont like this
so you reach 16 supply and than your waiting for 300mins to build the hatchey
1 larva pops out .. second larva pops out
as the third one pops out you build your pool.
and having 3autolarva is always bad cause every second you waist while having 3 larvae is worth 1/15 larvae
i think 13 hatch 15pool 15 gas is even better =/
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Is anyone winning any TvZs on the patch server?
I've found that the combo of 5 second rax delay means zerg exits early game with a lot more drones than before. They can make more drones before they switch to lings and have more time to finish crawlers so they spend fewer larva.
Then in the midgame they start with a much larger economy and there's nothing great at clearing lings / banes off the map without hellions. So they have map control and get a thrid much faster.
Then its all downhill. Basically is anyone winning TvZs on the patch server and if so what are you doing?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On September 03 2011 08:47 General_Winter wrote:
Is anyone winning any TvZs on the patch server?
I've found that the combo of 5 second rax delay means zerg exits early game with a lot more drones than before. They can make more drones before they switch to lings and have more time to finish crawlers so they spend fewer larva.
Then in the midgame they start with a much larger economy and there's nothing great at clearing lings / banes off the map without hellions. So they have map control and get a thrid much faster.
Then its all downhill. Basically is anyone winning TvZs on the patch server and if so what are you doing?
I'd recommend giving hellions a try anyways. The red flame hasn't been nerfed, and blue flame hellions still 2-shot zerglings-- the blue flame nerf is only really relevant in TvT and vs workers before you get +1 armory, and even then, hellions are still excellent.
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At what percent of infestor extra starting energy research do I start building infestors for it to be timed to finish right before they pop out?
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On September 03 2011 10:52 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
At what percent of infestor extra starting energy research do I start building infestors for it to be timed to finish right before they pop out?
Start when its 30 seconds into the upgrade so 30/80
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On September 03 2011 10:59 Philip2110 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 10:52 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
At what percent of infestor extra starting energy research do I start building infestors for it to be timed to finish right before they pop out? Start when its 30 seconds into the upgrade so 30/80
Thanks! Probably something I could have figured out myself with some Googling but asking here was much easier :p.
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Guys, I researched but could not find it. What is FOW? I see it in Teamliquid hacker thread a lot.
Thanks!
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On September 03 2011 15:00 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Guys, I researched but could not find it. What is FOW? I see it in Teamliquid hacker thread a lot.
Thanks!
"Fog Of War" . That's what areas of the map, that you have not scouted are "covered" by.
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Hey guys, new to the forum, I started playing SC2 about a month ago? I really want to get good so i figure this is the place to learn! :D
so i have a quick question,
whats the "priority" in SC2. probes > Pylons >units > tech?
also, im in bronze league (sadface... lol im 5th though!) i have been working on my macro, but i need a generic build that i can use against all races (i understand if i have to go wall off against Zerg and place a zealot) Does such a thing exist? i want to say that 4gate from what i have been reading is just that, but then i read its a "Cheese" build, and i really don't want to be a cheese player.
Thanks a lot!
Gorship
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What are the optimal video settings for spotting cloaked units?
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On September 03 2011 16:42 Warnipple wrote:
What are the optimal video settings for spotting cloaked units?
Don't think there is much of a difference. But noteably, most pro players have turned their graphics to the lowest of the low, saying it makes it easier to generally see units without all the fancy graphics to get in the way.
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On September 03 2011 18:29 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 16:42 Warnipple wrote:
What are the optimal video settings for spotting cloaked units? Don't think there is much of a difference. But noteably, most pro players have turned their graphics to the lowest of the low, saying it makes it easier to generally see units without all the fancy graphics to get in the way.
You need to turn teytures on high/ultra though.
Anyways, back to my question:
Why were the MVP vs DRG VODs removed?
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-sc2-vod
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On September 03 2011 15:20 Gorship wrote:
Hey guys, new to the forum, I started playing SC2 about a month ago? I really want to get good so i figure this is the place to learn! :D
so i have a quick question,
whats the "priority" in SC2. probes > Pylons >units > tech?
also, im in bronze league (sadface... lol im 5th though!) i have been working on my macro, but i need a generic build that i can use against all races (i understand if i have to go wall off against Zerg and place a zealot) Does such a thing exist? i want to say that 4gate from what i have been reading is just that, but then i read its a "Cheese" build, and i really don't want to be a cheese player.
Thanks a lot!
Gorship
Hi Gorship, welcome to TL.net! I'm not sure how new you are to the RTS genre so if anything in my post comes off like I'm treating you "like a Bronze leaguer" it's just to make sure I'm not making any assumptions on what you do or don't already know. Also, I'm really sorry but if I'm going to answer properly to help you, this won't be a quick or necessarily simple answer.
In SC2 the priority generally is to always be making probes and always be watching your supply to build pylons. Units and tech come out a lot faster if you have an economy to support them. On that note though, don't queue your probes up unless one is about to finish and you're just adding another one, you want to just constantly have one probe producing (5 queued up is 200 minerals sat in a queue doing nothing for you)
Pylons are also very important obviously though, and you should plan ahead to produce them. At the start of the game you should take your 9th supply probe and build your first Pylon, there'll still be a slight "bump" in production but it's the best first Pylon. After that you'll want to plan based on your production buildings and plan to progress through the game. if you have 3-4 gate producing and a Probe producing constantly, you're probably going to need to be producing 2 Pylons at a time to avoid getting supply capped for instance.
This will take a long time to get right (I'm in Plat and get supply capped at around the 50 supply mark all the time!!!) so don't stress yourself if you don't get it perfect but just keep practicing on getting it as smooth as you can it's something to always practice, and might be worth making mental triggers if you get find yourself getting caught out at one point a lot.
So, so far in terms of priority Probes = Pylons > Tech/Units so to sort out that next bit.
Your specific plan for the mid game will generally decide when to make specific choices but in all honesty at the lower levels of play (I include myself in that) just having more stuff is best generally. If you have some spare cash get upgrades, otherwise aim for the tech that suits your play style/plans best. As Day[9] (http://blip.tv/day9tv) says, a good build isn't when you can't add something to it, but when you can't take something away from it - the idea being that you want to focus on getting out the units you need with the tech you need as efficiently as possible.
Basically though, if you have 100 stalkers with no upgrades or tech and your opponent has every tech tree in the game and 15 charge zealots - you win every time. As a result you want be producing as many units as you can as often as possible without sacrifcing your economy (except in specific builds when you understand why you're doing it). To do this try to make sure you build just enough production facilities to constantly be producing from all of them without queuing up anything based on your income, and make sure they're constantly doing something (on on cooldown in the case of Warpgates). This way you'll be increasing your army as fast as possible and will have all of your resources doign something for you as often as possible.
So in short, for now:
Probes = Pylons > Units > Tech
As to builds, every Protoss should know a 4 gate honestly, it's a very versatile build and useful to have in your box of tricks, dont' worry about if it's "cheese" or not. I'd argue it's not personally, it's just a very aggressive opener, but my opinion on it is equally pointless. At the Bronze level you can generally get promoted by just having a build that you do (maybe one for each match up) and just practicing so it's a good idea to find a build to practice and get better with. I'd advise not doing something like cannon rushing or proxy 2 gate Zealot attacks if you're interested in improving, rather than just getting promoted though, but it's your spare time so use it in a way you find fun.
Here's a link to some strong builds for Protoss, read through them, and see if any of them catch your eye. The rest of the page has some useful information as well though if you're interested. i'll link to the general builds, but just below it are some match up specific options.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy#General_Builds
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Hi everyone
People always say "Oh, I have 35:6 win loss ratio against T or P or Z" Question is, how can you do it? Cant you see your Win Loss ratio ONLY in Master and GM League?
So how come those people say they can check things like....they have been winning 50 games out of last 55 games...etc.
Or maybe they just wrote it all down? haha, thanks!
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On September 03 2011 22:00 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi everyone
People always say "Oh, I have 35:6 win loss ratio against T or P or Z" Question is, how can you do it? Cant you see your Win Loss ratio ONLY in Master and GM League?
So how come those people say they can check things like....they have been winning 50 games out of last 55 games...etc.
Or maybe they just wrote it all down? haha, thanks!
You're correct that you can only see your complete w:l in masters and gm. Most likely they use a 3rd party program, e.g., sc2gears to keep track of their w:l by automatically managing their replays.
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Hey everyone, i got SC2 yesterday, but i've been in love with it for about a year now. (<3 totalbiscuit + Day9 :p )
I play protoss as i find it suits my style, and i seem to win most games if i play my best, apart from 1 scenario.
PvZ.
I generally try and get 3 gates, make mainly sentrys and expand vs. zerg, as i understand keeping up with zerg on bases is good :S and i keep all my units at the front of my 2nd base.
But then every so often a muta harass comes in (now its becoming quite common, knocked me down to bronze today :s )
My question is, what is the quickest way to deal with muta harass as protoss?
I can't seem to scout it as my probe always dies before a spire could come up, so my first sight is when it destroys my mineral line.
After i see mass muta I go into double stargate and pheonixes, but by then the damage is done.
Also, i tend to go chargelots vs. zerg, so my stalker count is barely high enough to take care of the muta's, and they have to walk all the way to the mineral line >.<
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On September 04 2011 02:43 ThyLastPenguin wrote:
Hey everyone, i got SC2 yesterday, but i've been in love with it for about a year now. (<3 totalbiscuit + Day9 :p )
I play protoss as i find it suits my style, and i seem to win most games if i play my best, apart from 1 scenario.
PvZ.
I generally try and get 3 gates, make mainly sentrys and expand vs. zerg, as i understand keeping up with zerg on bases is good :S and i keep all my units at the front of my 2nd base.
But then every so often a muta harass comes in (now its becoming quite common, knocked me down to bronze today :s )
My question is, what is the quickest way to deal with muta harass as protoss?
I can't seem to scout it as my probe always dies before a spire could come up, so my first sight is when it destroys my mineral line.
After i see mass muta I go into double stargate and pheonixes, but by then the damage is done.
Also, i tend to go chargelots vs. zerg, so my stalker count is barely high enough to take care of the muta's, and they have to walk all the way to the mineral line >.<
Your main problem here is scouting. You're not keeping tabs on the zerg and checking his tech path.
Protoss has a great deal of ways to scout in general.
You can:
-Poke with your army
-Use hallucinated Phoenixes
-Observers
-Actual phoenixes
Since you're making a lot of sentries to expand, consider researching hallucination as soon as you have the gas for it, and hallucinate a phoenix, use it to scout around 7-8 minutes and see the zerg's tech path. Hallucination is the fastest way to scout if you open with a gateway-heavy build. Observers for if you're opening robo, and phoenixes to harrass and scout if you open stargate.
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EPT
