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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
 Also even after clearn up the terran makes Marine tanks and cleans up eveything!2) What is the best way to stop a timing terran who does bf helion harass into 3 factory Thor+ bf helion? I was a noob and just went ling bling that got washed up.. thanks! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On September 02 2011 03:49 vahgar.r24 wrote: 1)How do I prevent a timing 4 banshee as Zerg? Even though i know its coming after sacking my ovelord, I make 2 spores per base and 2 queens but you cant cover the entire base- my lair was taken out Also even after clearn up the terran makes Marine tanks and cleans up eveything!2) What is the best way to stop a timing terran who does bf helion harass into 3 factory Thor+ bf helion? I was a noob and just went ling bling that got washed up.. thanks! 1) assuming you meant a timing *for* banshees, if he has cloak, you only need 1 spore at each base-- usually in the mineral line, since they detect for 11~12 range around. Spores are mostly for detection. Make an extra queen at each base so you have 4, then use the spare queens to connect your bases with tumors so that you can have 4 queens to defend against banshees at any time. A banshee kills a queen 1v1, but in larger numbers queens should win as long as you use transfuse. Try to have your queens "take turns" injecting so that every queen has a transfuse available. 2) Hellions are strong against lings and thors are strong against blings. Roaches, however, are reasonably effective against both. Depending on when the timing attack is hitting, you might also be able to use infestors.. but usually roaches (with speed and on creep, ideally, to make up for the range deficit) are solid against terran mech play. Ling support is good if you can avoid getting roasted by hellions, since thors overkill lings pretty hard. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On September 02 2011 01:46 GGTesomas wrote: Around what time does a properly executed 6 gate hit PvZ. In addition, what time do I need to be taking my gases if I'm trying to go ling bling infestor against it? Which is better vs a 6 gate, fast pit and pathogen or ovie speed and drops with a lot of banes It depends if your opponent went gate first or forge first. A gate first into 6 gate should hit at about 7 minutes, whereas a forge first into 6 gate should hit around 8 minutes (keep in mind that the forge first one is stronger because your opponent has more time for upgrades like blink or +2). As for what to use to defend, I don't think infestors will come out in time to be significant against this, at least not with enough energy to chain-fungal. In your case, I'd go with much faster baneling bombs but this can still be vulnerable to blink-centric builds. I usually rely more on roaches vs fast gate pushes because I just feel more robust, but I suppose it is a preference thing. | ||
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Sithelin123
Canada168 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On September 02 2011 09:35 Sithelin123 wrote: When when a protoss forge expands and I as Zerg respond by double expanding, when do I stop making drones? I find myself constantly being killed by 2 base timing pushes by protoss since I overdrone like crazy. At what time or supply in the game should I stop making drones and pump out pure units? Is there a guide outside the day9 daily for drone timings? I didnt feel that daily was good enough for me personally. It's just something you have to get used to learning and correcting off of analyzing your own replays. My favorite way to describe playing zerg is: you have to lose to something to know how to beat it. Generally, you want to have around 2 bases worth of saturation if you scout a 2 base timing, but it does vary depending on your play style, what exactly you're up against, etc. On September 02 2011 09:47 Salivanth wrote: Is the FFE into +1 weapons 6-gate timing attack in PvZ meant to be all-in, or should you be able to expand behind it if you scout that you're not going to break him? It can be debated both ways, but the way I see it is you need to do some damage for it to be worth it. Even though you won't necessarily be out-produced if you don't attack, you sacrifice a lot of early game teching opportunities to go for this kind of build. It becomes awkward to transition out of, which is why you see many protoss players, like JYP, favor going for a sort of half-assed-not-really-expecting-to-do-damage type of 6 gate with zealot/stalker/archon, because you have templar tech to fall back on. | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
It can be debated both ways, but the way I see it is you need to do some damage for it to be worth it. Even though you won't necessarily be out-produced if you don't attack, you sacrifice a lot of early game teching opportunities to go for this kind of build. It becomes awkward to transition out of, which is why you see many protoss players, like JYP, favor going for a sort of half-assed-not-really-expecting-to-do-damage type of 6 gate with zealot/stalker/archon, because you have templar tech to fall back on. If I was making occasional probes during the attack, would it be doing enough damage if I just forced the Zerg to pump units for 2-3 minutes? (Assuming I don't die to the counterattack) Or do I actually have to kill drones (if he's 2-basing) or kill his third (if he's 3-basing) to come out even? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On September 02 2011 10:56 DW-Unrec wrote: How do pro gamers bound their hotkeys? I see many people bounding all the hatcheries, all gateways to 0. On the tourneys they barely move their hands, which means they are not pressing the 0 key. I mean, they bound 0 to which key? That's probably something you'd have to ask them yourselves, or maybe when they're streaming in stream chat. Several players who use grid drag their extra control groups down over YHN rather than continuing. Some people put the far-end hotkeys up at f1 f2 f3. Some people who don't play zerg drag 0 over to ~. | ||
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RDaneelOlivaw
Vatican City State733 Posts
On September 02 2011 05:08 Soluhwin wrote: It depends if your opponent went gate first or forge first. A gate first into 6 gate should hit at about 7 minutes, whereas a forge first into 6 gate should hit around 8 minutes (keep in mind that the forge first one is stronger because your opponent has more time for upgrades like blink or +2). As for what to use to defend, I don't think infestors will come out in time to be significant against this, at least not with enough energy to chain-fungal. In your case, I'd go with much faster baneling bombs but this can still be vulnerable to blink-centric builds. I usually rely more on roaches vs fast gate pushes because I just feel more robust, but I suppose it is a preference thing. Seriously? Damn. I've been running into 6 gates at 11 minutes (High Diamond, for reference), which is why I asked about pathogen glands. In that case, how exactly are you supposed to scout it. I would think the typical ovie sacrifice post forge-ffe would be too late to catch it in time to counter it | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:11 DW-Unrec wrote: I asked spanishiwa and idra, got no answers. Maybe TL member can post what they use? Neither of these players on on TL. Spanishwa is on VILE, I believe, and IdrA is on EG. Asking a TL member would definitely not help and probably just bother the TL member. A lot of people talked about custom hotkeys in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181926 | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
I want to start playing Zerg for practice in macro style play. I saw some build orders on Liquipedia, but I just want to know what some standard, safe, macro-oriented openings for ZvZ, ZvP, and ZvT are. If possible, I would like to have a build order that can be used in two matchups (ZvP/ZvT for example). I would be perfectly happy to have this question answered with a link. Thanks in advance. | ||
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ssartor
United States129 Posts
On September 02 2011 12:46 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: Very simple question here. I want to start playing Zerg for practice in macro style play. I saw some build orders on Liquipedia, but I just want to know what some standard, safe, macro-oriented openings for ZvZ, ZvP, and ZvT are. If possible, I would like to have a build order that can be used in two matchups (ZvP/ZvT for example). I would be perfectly happy to have this question answered with a link. Thanks in advance. ZvZ - speedling FE ZvZ - 15 Hatch > ling bling muta or ling infestor ZvP - speedling FE > roach infestor | ||
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MannerNexus
4 Posts
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
From what I see pros doing, maps with small ramps you can open with roach. Do not forget to scout and put pressure with the initial lings tho, if you se he's going for a 15 hatch while you open roaches, or you see he is preparing an all-in with banes, its GG for you. | ||
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
On September 02 2011 13:12 ssartor wrote: ZvZ - speedling FE ZvZ - 15 Hatch > ling bling muta or ling infestor ZvP - speedling FE > roach infestor I like the ZvP build here, but somebody seems to disagree with you on the ZvZ builds. Did you mistype something and mean to put one of those down as ZvT? The second one looks pretty ZvT to me. From what I see pros doing, maps with small ramps you can open with roach. Do not forget to scout and put pressure with the initial lings tho, if you se he's going for a 15 hatch while you open roaches, or you see he is preparing an all-in with banes, its GG for you. Er, this is kind of sounding like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type post. Are you saying that ZvZ is necessarily rock-paper-scissors? | ||
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ssartor
United States129 Posts
On September 02 2011 13:47 DW-Unrec wrote: both speedling FE and 15 hatch are insta lose to the stantard baneling opening. Dont tell the newbie to do builds that will make him lose more than win. From what I see pros doing, maps with small ramps you can open with roach. Do not forget to scout and put pressure with the initial lings tho, if you se he's going for a 15 hatch while you open roaches, or you see he is preparing an all-in with banes, its GG for you. Speedling FE is definitely not insta lose versus banelings... This comes from someone who used to do 1 and 2 base baneling play every single game. If you scout or suspect baneling play there IS a window where you can get another queen to block ramp until roaches or get a defensive baneling nest. If you are getting banelinged a lot you can just make it a habit to get defensive banes i.e. don't take guys off gas till 150. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On September 02 2011 13:45 MannerNexus wrote: If you hold off the first (and even second) wave of a 1-1-1 attack without being able to kill the banshees, is it better to build more gateways and stalkers, or a stargate for phoenixes. Assuming I had to use my other gateways for zealots. imo stargate for phoenix | ||
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