[G] Critical Upgrade Analysis - Page 2

On January 26 2011 03:44 Sv1 wrote:
Two things: I see that you mentioned shield/stimmed marines vs non stimmed/shielded marines, but I'm not finding any comparison of the two, you could almost assume that those numbers might be able to be a thread of their own.

Not to turn this into a debate about sentries but I think garudian shield needs a deeper look, I know you mention it but are you accounting for it at all or counting it as a factor in only certain matchups?

On January 26 2011 03:53 statikg wrote:
I feel like for a post on critical upgrades, you have missed alot of key facts differentiating what makes upgrades so critical. That said, I appreciate that you have done a ton of excellent work but I think there is still plenty to add. For example you don't really differentiate between +1atk and def in TvZ but +1atk is much more important then +1def. As well in TvT you didn't mention that +1 air weapons makes 1 less hit for vikings to kill vikings which is hugeee. Also for tanks vs zerg, you HAVE to get +1 atk because otherwise once lings get +1armor (which I imagine most zergs get quickly) then tanks stop 1shotting them.

On January 26 2011 04:03 Jermstuddog wrote:
+2 weapons makes colossi 1-shot lings until they have +3 carapace.

+1 melee is always critical for ling use as surface area is limited. +x melee upgrades can never be made up with more lings, unlike ranged attack ups being replaced with just more of said ranged unit.

for ZvZ, lings need 7 less hits, not 8. The roach will instantly regen 1 HP after the first hit, this affects the +1 lings, but not the 0 lings and guarantees it will be in that 7 hit threshold.

+2 and +3 ranged are also highly useful in ZvZ, every upgrade always reduces hits by 1. I believe +2 carapace doesn't do anything for the most part though, so the best bang for your buck is something like +3/+1 when talking roach vs roach.

On January 26 2011 05:53 CooDu wrote:
Looks really good, thanks for this. I guess most of it goes without saying and experience, but good resource for newer players nonetheless.

On January 26 2011 04:16 kazansky wrote:


I was torn long about it but decided not to. Zerg units dont heal instantly, for example, banelings oneshot zerglings with damage 35 to 35 sharp. And i did some testing with hitting zerglings with zerglings, it takes a delay of a few seconds (unless i was drunk that day).

Additionally, I used the search function repeatidly to look out for such information and couldnt find it, so I might have missed it.

On January 26 2011 04:10 kazansky wrote:



Banshee versus Stalker analysis

for Terran: +1 on Banshee makes Stalker killed in 7 instead of 8 shots, Armor on banshee lets it take 2 more shots
for Protoss: on +1 Damage Stalker lets the stalker kill the Banshee in 13 instead of 14 shots, Armor on Stalker doesnt change the amount of hits though.

On January 26 2011 04:32 kazansky wrote:
d) I intentionally let down higher upgrades unless they have huge impact, it aswell overextend the intention, upgrades are never bad obviously

On January 26 2011 03:44 Shikyo wrote:
Even though you explain it, you still should take into account the fact that Zerg units heal 1 hp immediately after taking damage, without delay, and that regen will always make a difference in all cases except a group of marines(or something else without a projectile) firing simultaneously.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I've seen a chart or something similiar a while ago, but I'm sure this is useful for the people who haven't.


Please add in that +1 attack for P makes Immortals always 3-shot Roaches


Ever tried to kill Zealot/Sentry type of composition with 0-0 marines and marauders when they have +1 armor?

On January 26 2011 06:14 TheHumanSensation wrote:


Zerg regen is 1hp/3seconds, but the first HP is frontloaded. As long as the unit is at full HP and isn't getting one-shotted, it will recover one HP instantly.

This becomes important for these calculations based on a golden rule of upgrades I use. All units have a total HP value that is divisible by 5, and most have an HP value that is divisible by 10. Following this, any upgrades that either increase your damage to a factor of 5 or 10, or increase it to above a factor of 5 or 10, will reduce the number of hits it takes to kill something.

Example, going from 8 to 9 attack will rarely be useful (unless it's say, lings vs thors). Going from 9 to 10 will be extremely useful, as will be going from 10 to 11.

Armour doesn't really throw this off, because it's easy enough to keep track of your relative attack. Protoss having unequal armour/shield can make this hard, but zerg regen (despite being very important) is pretty easy to keep track of.

Much in the same way that going from 10 to 11 attack is a big deal, going from 80hp to 81hp is also a big deal (hydras, for example) and will result in surviving one additional hit. For this reason, I think you should treat all zerg units as having 1 more hp than they actually have, as long as they aren't getting one-shotted.

On January 26 2011 06:27 Jayrod wrote:


Well since banshees shoot 2 shots per volley they wouldnt kill stalkers any faster with 7 attacks than they would with 8, so its wise to get +1 armor first if you are using a banshee-based army against a protoss trying to defend with stalkers.