• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:07
CEST 18:07
KST 01:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3
StarCraft 2
General
The New Patch Killed Mech! Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy herO joins T1 Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BSL Season 21 BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW caster Sayle BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1677 users

[G] Critical Upgrade Analysis - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Aoi_10
Profile Joined October 2010
United States155 Posts
January 28 2011 01:06 GMT
#101
On January 28 2011 08:32 kazansky wrote:


b) If i am not totally mistaken, void rays are light and phoenix armored (as stated in data basis). Maybe i wrote that down wrong, then it would be obviously wrong. But I admit, i am no protoss player, so my mind didnt tickle at that. Needs review, will get reviewed within 24 hours, promise


Yep, it's the opposite. One of the reasons why void rays are such a pain against Terran mech. It's understandably confusing, given that even though void rays are "armored," their starting armor level is actually 0.
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
January 28 2011 02:03 GMT
#102
On January 28 2011 07:01 Reptilia wrote:
Wow, great post
I didnt know +1 armor was better (than weapon) in most cases (as t)


This is a misinterpretation. +1 armor is never better because of the nature of bio. So many more units are firing at one time then are taking damage, that means the attack upgrades function on far more units at a time so even if it was only 50% as effective it would probably still be better.
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-28 09:38:35
January 28 2011 09:31 GMT
#103
On January 28 2011 08:52 Black Gun wrote:
one very crucial thing is missing:

thors with +3 attack twoshot roaches with 0 or 1 armor upgrades.

thors deal 30(+3) x2 damage, roaches have 145 life with 1 base armor. with 0/1 armor upgrades, a +3 thor (39 dam x2) will do 38/37 dam per single shot, and there are 4 such shots in 2 thor attacks. this yields a "twoattack-damage" of 152/148 respectively, meaning the thor will twoshot instead of 3shot the roaches.

additionally, +2 attack means that thors kill mutas faster. this means that a thor-centric mech play in tvz relies heavily on attack upgrades. but ofc the armor upgrades also are very effective on thors. in other words: to fight fully upgraded thors, roaches need at least 2 armor upgrades or they get melted.


Correct, I didn't look on that before, will be added, thanks. Although I will not change it to critical (yet) because it is too match development depending and I want to wait for a while until the game is figured out more.
On a sidenote, Thor vs Mutalisks was already mentioned on Sidenote





On January 28 2011 09:25 W2 wrote:
PvT stats for +attack are misleading.

You are right that +attack does not affect how many hits to take down a full hp marine. But you never engage full-hp marines. The most likely scenario would be stimmed marines, which have 10 less hp. And +1 ground weapons means zealots need 1 less swing.



As stated in Presumptions, I made Marines always 45 to cover stimmed shielded and unstimmed unshielded Marines. The more special the case gets (in this case stimmed unshielded Marines), the less this Thread is a real help because, although true, it is not a given that this will be crucial in one year, and also mentioning every single combination would blow the article up unneccessarily.
I can also compute every hit counter for TvP once a EMP goes off aswell, of course, but this does not really fit the case in my eyes.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Fjord
Profile Joined January 2011
1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-01-28 10:17:02
January 28 2011 10:12 GMT
#104
I think a look at pure hit to kill is useful but I feel like you're simplifying the mutalisks a bit too much, need to take into account the bouncing glaive worm.

No upgrades
9 + 3 +1 damage

+1 Air Weapon
10 + 4 +2

Likewise when fighting against mutas if you were to pick up+1 armour you can turn that into
8 + 2 + ~0

This is significant even for SCVs. Speak of which, an opponent who picked up +1 infantry armour and really messed up my banshee harass, pushing it up to 3 HTK.

Perhaps you could also add a simple chart which shows what % gain in weapon damage each unit gets from each level of upgrade and perhaps what % of damage loss they have against armour. Really I imagine this would just highlight how important this mechanic is for marines and zerglings.

Would this also be the appropriate place to check out which unit matchups guardian shield is a powerhouse in and when not to bother? Zealots with +1 armor and guardian shield vs marines cuts them down to 2 damage, that's alot of hits to kill.
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
January 28 2011 10:12 GMT
#105
On January 28 2011 08:32 kazansky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2011 05:40 Aoi_10 wrote:
Thanks for this, Kaz - stuff like this is the reason why I love this site.

A couple comments on the following:

"+1 Mech Attack: Tanks take 1 less shot on Zealots, Stalkers and Collosi, Hellions kill Zealots in 5 shots instead of 6, and Stalkers in 20 instead of 22 Shots. Thors kill Voidrays in 5 instead of 6 Shots, and Phoenixes in 7 instead of 8 (Sidenote: +3 Hellions makes kill Zealots in 5 shots, +3 Thors always kill Voidrays in 5 Shots, +3 Thors kill Colossi in 5 shots instead of 6, all regardless of upgrades)"

First, unupgraded hellions do 14 dmg against light units, implying they would kill zealots in 11 shots, not 6. +1 would case them to do 16 dmg, implying they would kill zealots in 10 shots. (FWIW, with the blue flame upgrade, they should kill a zealot in 7 hits, and with both blue flame and +1 attack, should kill a zealot in 6 hits.)

Second, unupgraded thors do 24 dmg over 4 shots to non-light units, and void rays are non-light units (armored, actually). So, it takes 11 shots from an un-upgraded thor to take down a void ray, and 9 shots from a thor with +1 attack. (Your numbers would be correct if void rays were considered light.) Phoenixes, meanwhile, crumple after 4 shots from an un-upgraded thor, as well as a +1 thor. (Your numbers would be correct if phoenixes were considered non-light.)

Feel free to double-check my math on any of the above - I can't test anything at the moment.



a) When i refer to hellions I always mean blue flame hellions, it would be stupid having them around and banking upgrades on them without the upgrade with the highest payoff
Yeah, i somehow switched columns, its 7 and 6, need to correct that.

b) If i am not totally mistaken, void rays are light and phoenix armored (as stated in data basis). Maybe i wrote that down wrong, then it would be obviously wrong. But I admit, i am no protoss player, so my mind didnt tickle at that. Needs review, will get reviewed within 24 hours, promise





Sorry for that mix up, I somehow mixed that up.
I agree, for Thors against Voids its 11 normally and 9 on upgrade advantage, 12 on disadvantage.
In the very unlikely case of +3 Thors firing at +0/+0 Void Rays, you pick the flying candleholder in 7 Shots.
Thors against Phoenixes is 4 Shots, unless you can make more than 60 damage per Volley, which is 15 per projectile, which means +2 cannons against minor armor and shields, or simply +3 attack. Will be added, thanks for pointing out, I feel embarrassed mixing up those armor types.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
January 28 2011 10:25 GMT
#106
On January 28 2011 19:12 Fjord wrote:
I think a look at pure hit to kill is useful but I feel like you're simplifying the mutalisks a bit too much, need to take into account the bouncing glaive worm.

No upgrades
9 + 3 +1 damage

+1 Air Weapon
10 + 4 +2

Likewise when fighting against mutas if you were to pick up+1 armour you can turn that into
8 + 2 + ~0

This is significant even for SCVs. Speak of which, an opponent who picked up +1 infantry armour and really messed up my banshee harass, pushing it up to 3 HTK.

Perhaps you could also add a simple chart which shows what % gain in weapon damage each unit gets from each level of upgrade and perhaps what % of damage loss they have against armour. Really I imagine this would just highlight how important this mechanic is for marines and zerglings.

Would this also be the appropriate place to check out which unit matchups guardian shield is a powerhouse in and when not to bother? Zealots with +1 armor and guardian shield vs marines cuts them down to 2 damage, that's alot of hits to kill.


The Mutalisk bounce is a science itself and deserves some extra article maybe, I'm not planning to cover it in here yet.

Armor on SCVs is worth mentioning, thanks.

The percentage gain of Weapon upgrade is always around 10%, if you want a chart, feel free to make one
And I don't want to overload the data conclusion with graphics that say the same, I'm not an economist.
Unless it is wished for.

I intentionally skipped guardian shield, might be aswell topic of a seperate article.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Tiazi
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands761 Posts
January 28 2011 10:33 GMT
#107
This is the thread I've been looking for since my beginning of (starcraft) time.

Thank you x 10 million.

<3
"A brilliant yet deluded man once said, 'Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.' Gumiho is that agent of chaos." -monk
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
January 29 2011 01:14 GMT
#108
no offense but this upgrade analysis is incredibly short sighted. these are semi-interesting tid bits of "if you didn't know," but this is hardly a guide on what critical upgrades upgrades you should get in which match up.

you only consider +1, which is silly because if you're talking about 'critical upgrades,' you want to consider things like having an upgrade advantage or disadvantage, which means considering +1 vs 0, as well as +2 vs 0 and +2 vs 1. there's actually a couple problems with this kind of analysis but to break them all down would require an entirely new guide on my part

but if you want to just talk about upgrade advantages, there's already a spreadsheet made for that:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArT3fk5kKwxddFFzVmN2Si0tTVJ3d2ktVmljVFE4cmc&hl=en#gid=0

Hit X00 indicates how many less hits you need with a given attack upgrade with that unit, 0X0 indicates how many more hits you need when the unit has an armor upgrade. i'm pretty sure that the beginning part of this spreadsheet is basically what you're trying to do with this thread but a little bit more complete?
Aoi_10
Profile Joined October 2010
United States155 Posts
January 29 2011 02:17 GMT
#109
On January 29 2011 10:14 Herculix wrote:
no offense but this upgrade analysis is incredibly short sighted. these are semi-interesting tid bits of "if you didn't know," but this is hardly a guide on what critical upgrades upgrades you should get in which match up.

you only consider +1, which is silly because if you're talking about 'critical upgrades,' you want to consider things like having an upgrade advantage or disadvantage, which means considering +1 vs 0, as well as +2 vs 0 and +2 vs 1. there's actually a couple problems with this kind of analysis but to break them all down would require an entirely new guide on my part

but if you want to just talk about upgrade advantages, there's already a spreadsheet made for that:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArT3fk5kKwxddFFzVmN2Si0tTVJ3d2ktVmljVFE4cmc&hl=en#gid=0

Hit X00 indicates how many less hits you need with a given attack upgrade with that unit, 0X0 indicates how many more hits you need when the unit has an armor upgrade. i'm pretty sure that the beginning part of this spreadsheet is basically what you're trying to do with this thread but a little bit more complete?


Meh - no different than discussing opening build orders. Just because it doesn't tell you what to do throughout the game doesn't mean it's not useful in the early game. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing completeness for simplicity
Tossup
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States208 Posts
January 29 2011 04:54 GMT
#110
It seems that you haven't done air upgrades for protoss yet in PvZ yet. I would suspect this information to be pretty vital in PvZ since most protoss are going voids/phoenix against zerg these days.
Poiuytr
Profile Joined August 2010
United States9 Posts
January 29 2011 07:18 GMT
#111
It seems to me that the problem with these kinds of analyses is that it doesn't take into account all the ways that a unit can regenerate or enter a battle with an abnormal amount of life. Armor makes marines A LOT more hardy than this would imply when they're being healed by medivacs for instance. Sure it's nice to know that under ideal circumstances my mutalisk will survive one more hit, but realistically it doesn't change anything about the fact that it's just good in general to get upgrades and to start getting them at a certain time in the game regardless.
tshd
Profile Joined January 2011
1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-01-29 19:47:24
January 29 2011 18:46 GMT
#112
How about attack speed? One additional attack for Immortal is not the same as an one (two, three) additional attack for stimmed Marine.

The Infantry Armor shall be researched first: Marines get killed by Zealots in 3 shots, after a Armor Upgrade, this changes to 4.

Marines take 26 Hits to kill a Zealot in general, 22 if he has Damage Upgrade advantage.


I think it should be measured not in "number of shots", but in "shots * attack cooldown".

In number of shots:

Marine deal 15% less shots on Zealot, Zealot deal 33% more hits on Marine. Therefore, +1 Armor is a critical upgrade, +1 Attack is a mandatory.

Fine, but in seconds of time:

Marine kill Zealot in 3,44 seconds faster, Zealot kill Marine in 1,2 second slower. In other words, Marine will take one shot in 1,2 additional seconds (or 5 dmg) and Zealot will NOT hit two times in lack of 3,44 seconds (or 32 dmg).

P.S. Sorry for my English.
Selkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States530 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-29 22:19:34
January 29 2011 22:18 GMT
#113
I think it should be mentioned in TvZ that +1 mech attack makes sure that zerglings/banelings die in 1 shot to siege tanks. Quite often Z will upgrade ground armor to try to make it so they get 2 shotted instead. While not amazingly important, I'd argue that it raises the importance level from "nothing" to "something"
habermas
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom304 Posts
January 29 2011 23:34 GMT
#114
Awesome, thanks.
KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-30 01:53:11
January 30 2011 01:51 GMT
#115
On January 30 2011 07:18 Selkie wrote:
I think it should be mentioned in TvZ that +1 mech attack makes sure that zerglings/banelings die in 1 shot to siege tanks. Quite often Z will upgrade ground armor to try to make it so they get 2 shotted instead. While not amazingly important, I'd argue that it raises the importance level from "nothing" to "something"


Tanks always kill banes in one hit, regardless of upgrades.

Oh and one quick thing:

+1 ground armor for terran means that non +1 DTs no longer one-shot scvs marines without combat shields.
RIP eSTRO :(
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
January 30 2011 10:54 GMT
#116
On January 29 2011 13:54 Tossup wrote:
It seems that you haven't done air upgrades for protoss yet in PvZ yet. I would suspect this information to be pretty vital in PvZ since most protoss are going voids/phoenix against zerg these days.


Yes, this is intentional. I want to wait if this turns out to be solid strategy or flavour of the day, because I don't want to overload data. If real Air builds have established in high level play, I will investigate.


On January 29 2011 16:18 Poiuytr wrote:
It seems to me that the problem with these kinds of analyses is that it doesn't take into account all the ways that a unit can regenerate or enter a battle with an abnormal amount of life. Armor makes marines A LOT more hardy than this would imply when they're being healed by medivacs for instance. Sure it's nice to know that under ideal circumstances my mutalisk will survive one more hit, but realistically it doesn't change anything about the fact that it's just good in general to get upgrades and to start getting them at a certain time in the game regardless.



Regeneration is mentioned and disected, the purpose of the thread is not a recipe to follow in every given circumstance.


On January 30 2011 03:46 tshd wrote:
How about attack speed? One additional attack for Immortal is not the same as an one (two, three) additional attack for stimmed Marine.

Show nested quote +
The Infantry Armor shall be researched first: Marines get killed by Zealots in 3 shots, after a Armor Upgrade, this changes to 4.

Marines take 26 Hits to kill a Zealot in general, 22 if he has Damage Upgrade advantage.


I think it should be measured not in "number of shots", but in "shots * attack cooldown".

In number of shots:

Marine deal 15% less shots on Zealot, Zealot deal 33% more hits on Marine. Therefore, +1 Armor is a critical upgrade, +1 Attack is a mandatory.

Fine, but in seconds of time:

Marine kill Zealot in 3,44 seconds faster, Zealot kill Marine in 1,2 second slower. In other words, Marine will take one shot in 1,2 additional seconds (or 5 dmg) and Zealot will NOT hit two times in lack of 3,44 seconds (or 32 dmg).

P.S. Sorry for my English.



I already mentioned earlier, this is not about damage increasement. The purpose is to show early upgrades that can change low digit unit battles significantly, or sniping in high battles. Damage increasement is a different field of research.



On January 30 2011 07:18 Selkie wrote:
I think it should be mentioned in TvZ that +1 mech attack makes sure that zerglings/banelings die in 1 shot to siege tanks. Quite often Z will upgrade ground armor to try to make it so they get 2 shotted instead. While not amazingly important, I'd argue that it raises the importance level from "nothing" to "something"





It was mentioned within the first page of replies. What you talk about is a correlated Nash equilibria, which is interesting but nevertheless has nothing to do with the article itself.
If you want to have attack upgrades to negate critical carapace upgrades, look up the carapaces.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
February 03 2011 17:43 GMT
#117
Thanks to Karnete, I forgot to write out the hit analysis of Zerglings against Protoss Armor.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
February 03 2011 18:29 GMT
#118
On January 28 2011 18:31 kazansky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2011 08:52 Black Gun wrote:
one very crucial thing is missing:

thors with +3 attack twoshot roaches with 0 or 1 armor upgrades.

thors deal 30(+3) x2 damage, roaches have 145 life with 1 base armor. with 0/1 armor upgrades, a +3 thor (39 dam x2) will do 38/37 dam per single shot, and there are 4 such shots in 2 thor attacks. this yields a "twoattack-damage" of 152/148 respectively, meaning the thor will twoshot instead of 3shot the roaches.

additionally, +2 attack means that thors kill mutas faster. this means that a thor-centric mech play in tvz relies heavily on attack upgrades. but ofc the armor upgrades also are very effective on thors. in other words: to fight fully upgraded thors, roaches need at least 2 armor upgrades or they get melted.


Correct, I didn't look on that before, will be added, thanks. Although I will not change it to critical (yet) because it is too match development depending and I want to wait for a while until the game is figured out more.
On a sidenote, Thor vs Mutalisks was already mentioned on Sidenote





Show nested quote +
On January 28 2011 09:25 W2 wrote:
PvT stats for +attack are misleading.

You are right that +attack does not affect how many hits to take down a full hp marine. But you never engage full-hp marines. The most likely scenario would be stimmed marines, which have 10 less hp. And +1 ground weapons means zealots need 1 less swing.



As stated in Presumptions, I made Marines always 45 to cover stimmed shielded and unstimmed unshielded Marines. The more special the case gets (in this case stimmed unshielded Marines), the less this Thread is a real help because, although true, it is not a given that this will be crucial in one year, and also mentioning every single combination would blow the article up unneccessarily.
I can also compute every hit counter for TvP once a EMP goes off aswell, of course, but this does not really fit the case in my eyes.

But if the player has enough medivacs, they could stim ahead of time and it wouldn't really cost them anything to keep it at 55 HP prior to engaging hostiles.
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 03 2011 18:36 GMT
#119
On January 26 2011 03:31 Alpina wrote:
This is informative.

+1 Armor: Marauders take 1 more hit on Roaches. This one correct? I think requires same hits.



So how about this?
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 11:55:52
February 08 2011 11:55 GMT
#120
On February 04 2011 03:36 Alpina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2011 03:31 Alpina wrote:
This is informative.

+1 Armor: Marauders take 1 more hit on Roaches. This one correct? I think requires same hits.



So how about this?



Sorry, too much work lately, I'll try to catch up.

Marauder damage is 10+10A, so 20 on armored.
Roaches with 146(+1 regen) HP and 1 base armor, 2 armor on upgrades states following math:

+0 attack vs +0 armor:
8 * (10+10-1) = 8 * 19 = 152 damage on 8 hits.

+0 attack vs +1 armor:
8 * (10+10-2) = 8 * 18 = 144, not enough.
9 * (10+10-2) = 9 * 18 = 162 damage on 9 hits.

So the statement holds, it increases the hits.

Am I mistaken?
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#27
WardiTV255
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 390
UpATreeSC 14
MindelVK 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36590
Calm 5311
Hyuk 4602
Sea 3272
GuemChi 1833
Bisu 1563
Horang2 1325
Flash 869
EffOrt 368
Larva 344
[ Show more ]
Mini 285
Soma 248
actioN 237
Soulkey 191
Hyun 154
Snow 146
TY 83
JYJ63
ggaemo 56
Mind 46
Killer 41
Aegong 25
Rock 22
soO 18
Movie 18
Terrorterran 17
SilentControl 16
Sacsri 13
scan(afreeca) 13
yabsab 10
Bale 10
Shine 8
HiyA 8
Dota 2
Gorgc7450
qojqva4103
Dendi1215
420jenkins410
BananaSlamJamma200
canceldota52
Counter-Strike
byalli598
fl0m584
markeloff194
edward61
FunKaTv 33
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor209
Other Games
singsing2415
hiko1203
B2W.Neo1107
FrodaN625
ceh9419
Sick338
Lowko299
Liquid`VortiX254
C9.Mang0104
ArmadaUGS103
KnowMe84
XcaliburYe63
Mew2King48
Trikslyr43
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL553
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 35
• Reevou 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3574
League of Legends
• Nemesis3717
Other Games
• Shiphtur123
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 53m
WardiTV Invitational
18h 53m
WardiTV Invitational
22h 23m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.