• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:44
CEST 13:44
KST 20:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced23BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 676 users

[D] PvP warp up ramp with 4 gate - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
January 13 2011 05:17 GMT
#61
On January 13 2011 13:38 Acridice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 13:31 Anihc wrote:
On January 13 2011 13:21 Acridice wrote:
On January 13 2011 13:18 Anihc wrote:
On January 13 2011 12:47 Acridice wrote:
On January 13 2011 12:41 Anihc wrote:
On January 13 2011 12:36 Acridice wrote:
2. I do a more econ friendly 4 gate where I never stop makin probes. What I do is not such a fast warpgate research and I make more earlier units. While cyber is finishing I make a zealot, then chrono boost the stalker and the cyber when cyber finishes. Make another stalker and a 2nd gateway at same time. As I'm doing this, I'm patrolling the map for map control and checking for proxies, killing probes and such. My warpgate tech finishes a little later and when it finishes I pressure his ramp. If he's done an aggressive 4 gate I'm ahead. If he techs I get a couple sentries out, make a concave around his ramp while I expand. These tend to work pretty well for me. I'm 2700 diamond. Maybe a little bit low, but I think the difference is just the number of mistakes people make.


Yes, it is because you are a bit low. A 4 gate that cuts probes at 20 will absolutely destroy you if you don't cut probes.



yes, I understand that. I believe a 10gate deserves a different reaction, like the 2 gate zealot pressure strat. However, a standard 12 gate warpgate I believe I can beat with econ friendly 4 gate. here is why. If I can control the map and prevent the proxy doesn't that buy me enough time to get my warpgate tech up? plus I have the extra units I was producing out of the gateways before the warpgate comes up.


Any probe after the 16th on minerals takes about 3-4 minutes to pay for itself. Stopping proxy pylons buys you half a minute of time at most, depending on the map.


Ok, but even so, the minute of time it buys me gets my warpgate tech up, and I don't think my extra probes are going to interfere with my production.


It has nothing to do with warpgate tech. Basically every 2 probes you make for awhile is going to be an extra zealot for the other player. Given that the defender's advantage is small enough as is, that extra 2 or so zealots or stalkers that your opponent has more than you is more than enough to give him the edge to win the game.


I'm sorry, I'm still having trouble understanding this. If I can produce off all 4 gates as I build probes, how is this not even. Are you saying that if I make extra probes, I can't continue to produce on 4 gates?


... but you can't. You can't even fully support 3 gateways constantly with a full mining base (30 probes), much less 4 gateways and a nexus off of not fully saturated base.
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
January 13 2011 05:24 GMT
#62
[/QUOTE]

... but you can't. You can't even fully support 3 gateways constantly with a full mining base (30 probes), much less 4 gateways and a nexus off of not fully saturated base.
[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry man, I'm having trouble believing this. And, it is inconsistent. Not only that but I have been able to produce out of 4 gateways on one base. And there is no way you can't support 3 gateways on a fully saturated base. Please, what league / level are you at?
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
Khaladas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States223 Posts
January 13 2011 05:44 GMT
#63
I'm glad you posted this because I was starting to feel the same way.

I've been trying to do 3 gate robo into expand but a high econ 4 gate ( sometimes even 5 ) just keeps on with wave after wave, and most bases have easy places to warp in units into your base. I'm sure if I had better micro I might be able to hold it off, but i'm finding it pretty difficult in a lot of games ( platinum ).

The last time I had any real success pvp was when i just went 4 gate every game, maybe it's time to just go back to that and take my chances.
time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a bananna
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 05:46:36
January 13 2011 05:46 GMT
#64
On January 13 2011 14:24 Acridice wrote:
I'm sorry man, I'm having trouble believing this. And, it is inconsistent. Not only that but I have been able to produce out of 4 gateways on one base. And there is no way you can't support 3 gateways on a fully saturated base. Please, what league / level are you at?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2055009#blog

#9
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 05:53:36
January 13 2011 05:49 GMT
#65
On January 13 2011 14:24 Acridice wrote:

I'm sorry man, I'm having trouble believing this. And, it is inconsistent. Not only that but I have been able to produce out of 4 gateways on one base. And there is no way you can't support 3 gateways on a fully saturated base. Please, what league / level are you at?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162717#15

Ok I lied, you can support 3 gateways with a fully saturated base if you don't count chrono boost or having to build pylons. I guess pylons may not really be a factor when your constantly attacking and losing your army but there's no reason not to factor in chrono boost, so my statement still stands. There has been nothing inconsistent to what I have said, the only thing that's inconsistent is a player's macro.

And why does it matter what league I'm in? Just look at the math.

EDIT: damnit Lagrangian :p
Kpyolysis32
Profile Joined April 2010
553 Posts
January 13 2011 06:11 GMT
#66
Well, this is terrifying. At least the adelscott won't care either way, really, because of they way it deals with 4 gate
Man, do I not keep this up to date, or what?
Khaladas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States223 Posts
January 13 2011 06:19 GMT
#67
On January 13 2011 14:49 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 14:24 Acridice wrote:

I'm sorry man, I'm having trouble believing this. And, it is inconsistent. Not only that but I have been able to produce out of 4 gateways on one base. And there is no way you can't support 3 gateways on a fully saturated base. Please, what league / level are you at?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162717#15

Ok I lied, you can support 3 gateways with a fully saturated base if you don't count chrono boost or having to build pylons. I guess pylons may not really be a factor when your constantly attacking and losing your army but there's no reason not to factor in chrono boost, so my statement still stands. There has been nothing inconsistent to what I have said, the only thing that's inconsistent is a player's macro.

And why does it matter what league I'm in? Just look at the math.

EDIT: damnit Lagrangian :p


Would you agree that when you are attacking someone's base during a 4 gate it's really important to micro your units well since the loss of one unit can make the difference in a game. If so, isn't it worth 150 minerals to allow your macro to slip a little so you can micro as efficiently as possible?
time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a bananna
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
January 13 2011 06:24 GMT
#68
On January 13 2011 15:19 Khaladas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 14:49 Anihc wrote:
On January 13 2011 14:24 Acridice wrote:

I'm sorry man, I'm having trouble believing this. And, it is inconsistent. Not only that but I have been able to produce out of 4 gateways on one base. And there is no way you can't support 3 gateways on a fully saturated base. Please, what league / level are you at?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162717#15

Ok I lied, you can support 3 gateways with a fully saturated base if you don't count chrono boost or having to build pylons. I guess pylons may not really be a factor when your constantly attacking and losing your army but there's no reason not to factor in chrono boost, so my statement still stands. There has been nothing inconsistent to what I have said, the only thing that's inconsistent is a player's macro.

And why does it matter what league I'm in? Just look at the math.

EDIT: damnit Lagrangian :p


Would you agree that when you are attacking someone's base during a 4 gate it's really important to micro your units well since the loss of one unit can make the difference in a game. If so, isn't it worth 150 minerals to allow your macro to slip a little so you can micro as efficiently as possible?


Oh I'm in full support of 4 gate, my argument is just that you can't indiscriminately produce probes non-stop.
-Strider-
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico1605 Posts
January 13 2011 06:26 GMT
#69
Can you post a replay of you doing this? i'll love you
What is up? IM NESTEAAAA!
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 13 2011 06:44 GMT
#70
On January 13 2011 08:40 kcdc wrote:
By placing a pylon at the bottom of your opponent's ramp slightly skewed off to the side, it's possible to warp in units over a forcefield and into your opponent's main without vision. Your units on the low ground have vision on the ramp, so you warp in a unit as far up as you can, immediately gaining a small area of vision in the main which you use to warp in the rest of your units.


This pylon placement needs a screenshot to continue the discussion well. Also, a screenshot of the offending forcefield. The upper placed forcefield I seem to never be able to get over, but the bottom of ramp forcefield I can.

Sorry, words don't cut it for me ><
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
January 13 2011 06:44 GMT
#71
Warpgates make pvp such a huge pain in the ass simply because 4gate is SOOOO easy to execute and so difficult to stop without going 4gate yourself. Maybe every nexus could have a psi field of some sort, and with every pylon, that field grows and every pylon within range of that field could sustain the warpin mechanic. But that's just a passing daydream for balancing pvp.

Personally I've just given up all hope in any build not 4gate because it's just too hard to defend with sentries and pray to survive til immortal comes out. Until a method to stop 4gate consistently appears, pvp will suck.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
January 13 2011 06:49 GMT
#72
[image loading]
Aui_2000
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada435 Posts
January 13 2011 07:06 GMT
#73
zealot - stalker - sentry gives you 2 ffs for a 4 warpgate push.

If you make pure stalker off 3 gate (while heading for blink or robo) from there you are spending all your money because 1 base stalker can really only support 3 gates with pylons.

Just make sure you have 2 ff's left at all time and 1-2 zealots (warp in replacements/extra sentries).

When he warps onto your ramp/straight into base just pull your units back so his stalkers can't hit anything and pick off zealots with stalkers, using your 1 zealot to tank if necessary. And you just traded 1 zealot + damaged stalker shields for 4 zealots. Just make sure you know how to click your sentries and run them away if they get target fired by the zealots (sounds so basic but so many people herpderp and just stare at the screen watching the pretty stalkers shoot). If the zealots split to your probes just throw down that 2nd forcefield and you have 15 game seconds to kill the zealots which should not be hard.

I see people ff the ramp then stand there and just a click and wonder why they lose to a 4gate when they are letting the 5-6 stalkers get free hits on their units. The simple pulling units back sort of destroys 4 gate 4 zealot warpin.

Once immortals/blink is up 4 gate sort of just loses.

I haven't really lost to a 4 gate pvp in a really long time, but I don't really have a replay right now--if I remember I'll post one next time someone four gates me.
follow @aui_2000 // www.twitch.tv/aui_2000
Rubix314
Profile Joined December 2010
54 Posts
January 13 2011 07:52 GMT
#74
On January 13 2011 15:49 Anihc wrote:
[image loading]


How did that game last so long when you were a full gateway up on him and him on 11 probes for half the battle?
LilClinkin
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Australia667 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 07:55:54
January 13 2011 07:55 GMT
#75
pvp is why I switched to terran, it's worse than zvz in bw.
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 08:51:24
January 13 2011 08:46 GMT
#76
On January 13 2011 10:14 iChau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 10:09 dwightasian wrote:
couldn't you just forcefield the very bottom of the ramp and have 4+stalkers hold position at the top of the ramp and shoot zealots warping in? Even if he got one or two completely warped in they would be killed in a matter of seconds...

I 4 gated and someone did this to me...they stalled until they got a colossus out and I just died.


Well, due to the necessary 4-5 sentries that can easily be sniped from the bottom due to the warping zealots, and if you make 4 stalkers, you might not be able to afford replacement sentries + colossi.

In fact, you won't be able to get the robotic's bay for another minute (if you warp-in 4 stalkers), and if he somehow, just somehow, snipes 1 sentry, that all-important bay is delayed for around 30 seconds.


4-5 sentries? Just make 1, FF ramp when his initial ground army shows up, if he warps units onto your high ground while the ramp is ff, just pull your stalkers back a bit and own the warping in units while the other ground units are locked out... should be basically 4 free kills at least, which is enough difference to hold off easily if you had 3 gateways.

Kind of sucks that pvp is the new zvz though. Warped in gateway units are the new speedlings and colossi are the new mutalisks. Almost everything else seems to be unviable =[ Blizzard never did find a way to make zvz interesting in BW though if you played zvz on maps that would be too large for any other matchup you'd have a much better chance of seeing hive tech and getting interesting games more often. Obviously that's not practical for serious tourneys/ladders. And larger maps probably wouldn't help pvp anyways since warping in is instant.

My suggested fix (at least for warpgate rush): You cannot warp into an enemy player's energy field. His pylon's energy field blocks your pylon's energy field (and vice versa). Then you could use pylons to more easily block units from warping onto your main's high ground, and use chained sentries to hold your ramp with a small army against gateway units long enough to get out your tech, like you can against the other races. EDIT-- as an added bonus, this blocks the lame-ass cannon rushes that are terrorizing the lower ranks too.
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
January 13 2011 08:49 GMT
#77
can't they shoot the pylon down from their side with stalkers or no?
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 08:59:04
January 13 2011 08:58 GMT
#78
On January 13 2011 17:49 .kv wrote:
can't they shoot the pylon down from their side with stalkers or no?


1) pylons warp in faster than a small number of stalkers can take them down. But if you have enough stalkers to prevent 1 pylon from warping in, he can just build 2 or even 3 and cancel the ones that are more hurt anyways.

2) He will already have 5 or 6 stalkers on the low ground trying to climb your ramp while this is happening, which if you went for a tech build outnumber you. While you are wasting shots on his pylon, his stalkers are shooting you. Unless of course you have a sentry and have awesome enough reaction time to get a ff off on the bottom of your ramp before even 1 of his units starts climbing the ramp and gives vision. If you pull back a little and kill that one unit you have now wasted more than enough time for his pylon(s) to finish warping in.

Theoretically with perfect play and a large enough stalker count you might be able to slow down his pylon warp-in and waste some of his money by forcing him to make 2 or 3 pylons but there's no way you could actually stop him from getting a pylon up and warping into your main base without having gone 4 gate yourself. The only thing you can do is have enough units and good enough micro to stop him even though he will be able to warp into your main basically no matter what you do.
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
siri
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal129 Posts
January 13 2011 09:48 GMT
#79
people that think that you can only defend 4 gate with a 4 gate must lack of creativity or are really brainwashed by "standards".
I defend with just 2 gates and I´am rather concerned if the opponents just contains me than sacrificing half of his army on my ramp
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 13 2011 10:29 GMT
#80
Okay for those of you, like me, that like pictures =).
[image loading]
Figure 1: Forcefield is in exact middle on the bottom, zealots warped in above it using vision from units below the forcefield
[image loading]
Figure 2: Forcefield is in exact middle of the top, zealots can warp in with the same pylon above the forcefield.
[image loading]
Figure 3: Second Pylon is placed closer to allow multiple units to be warped in on the top.

Figured it was true, thank you for the replay Anihc.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
ComeBackTV 1402
RotterdaM1163
IndyStarCraft 419
CranKy Ducklings163
Rex128
3DClanTV 91
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1163
IndyStarCraft 419
Rex 128
ProTech68
BRAT_OK 28
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31287
Horang2 9277
Hyuk 5776
Barracks 1034
Hyun 894
Mini 877
EffOrt 591
BeSt 573
Larva 514
firebathero 459
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 431
Stork 417
Last 226
ZerO 96
sorry 53
Sharp 49
Free 46
Rush 39
Dewaltoss 36
Noble 33
Sacsri 32
Shinee 30
sSak 28
sas.Sziky 27
soO 26
Sea.KH 21
Movie 20
yabsab 18
Icarus 15
NaDa 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
zelot 5
Bale 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe557
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K417
sgares80
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor257
Other Games
B2W.Neo1242
Beastyqt729
DeMusliM201
QueenE37
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH345
• tFFMrPink 12
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3664
• WagamamaTV783
• lizZardDota2284
League of Legends
• Jankos1068
• Nemesis353
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2h 16m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 16m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.