EPTIt would also seem that since the push has only 2 marauders and 1 marine that a probe pull would kill it easy enough as marauders don't do to well vs probes anyways...
Edit: 2200 master league with 200 bonus pool.
[D] TvP 2 marauder 1 marine expand
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
It would also seem that since the push has only 2 marauders and 1 marine that a probe pull would kill it easy enough as marauders don't do to well vs probes anyways... Edit: 2200 master league with 200 bonus pool. | ||
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boboyo
Australia63 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
1. It's usually really risky to poke up a ramp with your initial zeal/stalkers when he has marauders. If he has conc shells you're fucked. True 1 zeal 2 stalk beats 1 rine 2 marauder even with conc shells but you never know if he might have more units up there. 2. When going 1 gate expand, you actually get 1 zeal 2 stalk faster than other builds such as 3 gate or 4 gate because you're chronoing gate instead of warp gate tech. 3. When I play against this build, a lot of times T gets a bunker as well. Then it's really safe. | ||
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Marksman
Malaysia523 Posts
Timing may be off or the map is large. Perhaps checking your replay may answer your question | ||
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heyyouyesyou
United States323 Posts
If i can snipe a Robotics facility or Robo bay then i can just keep pumping medivacs and abuse drops while grabbing my 3rd. If not transition into a marauder/viking army and then get tanks and then thors. I never try to pressure with 1Rax FE because you only have those units for quite some time its better to bunker down imo. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
On January 12 2011 11:25 Lobber wrote: What I find is once I kill their poke/push I get to their base and they'll have 1 marauder or 1 marine and a half done bunker... Rarely do they ever have any way to defend... Wouldn't a good player see that their poke is going to fail and either pull back or start the bunker earlier? | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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quiggy
Canada58 Posts
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
Can someone give me a BO for this 2 marauder 1 marine poke? I usually go 1rax FE vs. P so I don't really know (or care) much about what the P is doing that early in the game, I know I just need to scout at 5-5:30 and/or prepare enough defense for 4 gate/3 gate void/ 3 gate robo. It seems that putting a little bit of pressure while expo'ing would be really cool to put the P on the back foot. I tried to use the search function and this is the only thread I found, if there are BO threads/guides on this please direct me to them. Thanks very much! | ||
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Jimmeh
United Kingdom908 Posts
On March 09 2011 10:24 Daniel C wrote: Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was reading about this poke in alot of PvT threads and didn't want to derail the thread there. Can someone give me a BO for this 2 marauder 1 marine poke? I usually go 1rax FE vs. P so I don't really know (or care) much about what the P is doing that early in the game, I know I just need to scout at 5-5:30 and/or prepare enough defense for 4 gate/3 gate void/ 3 gate robo. It seems that putting a little bit of pressure while expo'ing would be really cool to put the P on the back foot. I tried to use the search function and this is the only thread I found, if there are BO threads/guides on this please direct me to them. Thanks very much! "Can someone give me BO for this 2 marauder 1 marine poke?" "I usually go 1rax FE vs P" I'm guessing, when you go 1rax FE, you build 1 marine followed by 2 marauders? Well, once they're built, you poke with them. Congrats, there's your BO. (Also works with 2rax but is a bit riskier since your initial marauders are delayed). | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
 10 supply depot, 12 rax, 14 gas, 1 rine, techlab, marauder/conc, marauder, expand/poke | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On March 09 2011 11:13 Lobber wrote: Lol don't bump old threads even if they are mine 10 supply depot, 12 rax, 14 gas,15 OC, 1 rine, techlab, marauder/conc, marauder, expand/poke Fixed it for you . Kind of a no brainer, but you know how people are these days. | ||
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Xanczor
United States254 Posts
1. 2 marauders and 1 marine give you map control for a short period of time until the protosd has a zealot and stalker. You poke, but never go up a protosses ramp. And for your information, 1 marine 2 marauders = 1 zealot 1 stalker in a microed battle 2. Obviously a very fast expansion. Now what i like to do is check if toss has an expansion when my CC finishes. if he doesnt, i make 3 bunkers and use the scan when my OC finishes to see what hes up to. 3. The reason you think its bad is because at 2200 diamond most terrans just push up the ramp, find a zealot stalker and almost a sentry out, lose all their units then dont know what to do next. The 1 marine 2 marauder poke is used to gain map control and poke, not to attack. (3000 masters terran if you would like to know.) | ||
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xSuperflyTnT
United States55 Posts
I would like to see some replays of 1 rax FEs and the responses I see from the protoss as well as the unit counts etc. I've never really played with the style but am curious to try it out. | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
@Jimmeh. I should have made it clear that I was doing a 1 rax no gas FE. It delays gas for faster CC and OC, and I also use my first 100 gas on stim instead of marauders. That's different to the 2 marauder 1 marine poke being discussed. @Xanczor. Thanks alot for your insight. What do you mean by poking without going up a protoss ramp? How would you see his tech or army count? Most P's would keep their units up their ramp anyway...since they wouldn't want to show their tech if you're going for a 4 gate / 3 gate robo / 3 gate void bust. If you don't go up the ramp, what advantage does this have over 1 rax no gas FE? Also don't you have to retreat with your 3 units pretty soon, since if he warps in a round of stalkers your units would be killed. Thanks! @xSuperflyTnT: This was the thread I was looking at before, it's PvT though so it shows P winning ofc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196957 | ||
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winedz
United States92 Posts
if he is skipping zealot, i normally just go up ramp with my marauders and do micro battle there, I win the micro battle most of the time (no zealot) then I just wait for him to pull probe, kill some, back off, then I'm ahead | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
On March 09 2011 12:32 Xanczor wrote: Basically, i use this build in every tvp i play. Its so strong, adaptable, and simple. I use follow up with selects tvp but here are reasons this build is so popular and why you think its a bad build 1. 2 marauders and 1 marine give you map control for a short period of time until the protosd has a zealot and stalker. You poke, but never go up a protosses ramp. And for your information, 1 marine 2 marauders = 1 zealot 1 stalker in a microed battle 2. Obviously a very fast expansion. Now what i like to do is check if toss has an expansion when my CC finishes. if he doesnt, i make 3 bunkers and use the scan when my OC finishes to see what hes up to. 3. The reason you think its bad is because at 2200 diamond most terrans just push up the ramp, find a zealot stalker and almost a sentry out, lose all their units then dont know what to do next. The 1 marine 2 marauder poke is used to gain map control and poke, not to attack. (3000 masters terran if you would like to know.) K well first of all this is really old, like I'm 3500+ masters now, 2nd of all 1 stalker 1 zealot != 2 marauders 1 marine, terran wins that losing a marine, maybe a marauder if terran can't micro. 2 stalker 1 zealot wins losing a zealot, maybe a stalker if protoss can't micro. No terran pushes up a ramp with it, they generally do it because if toss opens stalker first they get a free stalker, or if toss has 1 stalker 1 zealot, and moves out before 2nd stalker is done, you get all the protoss units for free... | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
On March 09 2011 16:12 Lobber wrote: K well first of all this is really old, like I'm 3500+ masters now, 2nd of all 1 stalker 1 zealot != 2 marauders 1 marine, terran wins that losing a marine, maybe a marauder if terran can't micro. 2 stalker 1 zealot wins losing a zealot, maybe a stalker if protoss can't micro. No terran pushes up a ramp with it, they generally do it because if toss opens stalker first they get a free stalker, or if toss has 1 stalker 1 zealot, and moves out before 2nd stalker is done, you get all the protoss units for free... If T doesn't push up the ramp, what exactly is the point of the poke? You can only contain until his first round of stalkers warps-in...Is it to counter 1 stalk 1 zealot poke that 1 gate FE players like to do? | ||
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Elanshin
Australia216 Posts
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On March 09 2011 18:09 Daniel C wrote: The part I don't understand is that it's only 3 units. As soon as the warp gates go up you'll have to retreat or risk losing all your units to stalkers (if you do lose everything, your FE will be seriously compromised). That's still enough time for the P to move out or to get a robo and obs. You may delay the proxy plyon in a 4 gate...but that's about it...I can't see any other tangible advantage? If you don't do this poke, what's to stop P from simply not making enough units to stop this? When I go 2 gate robo and someone doesn't attack me, I simply expand off of 3 units and take an economic advantage. Poking forces me to get an immortal or possibly even a third gate before I can expand. | ||
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WrathOfAiur
Germany243 Posts
On March 09 2011 16:12 Lobber wrote: K well first of all this is really old, like I'm 3500+ masters now, 2nd of all 1 stalker 1 zealot != 2 marauders 1 marine, terran wins that losing a marine, maybe a marauder if terran can't micro. 2 stalker 1 zealot wins losing a zealot, maybe a stalker if protoss can't micro. No terran pushes up a ramp with it, they generally do it because if toss opens stalker first they get a free stalker, or if toss has 1 stalker 1 zealot, and moves out before 2nd stalker is done, you get all the protoss units for free... 3,3k master protoss here. I just want to emphasize this, because this is the best explanation of this poke in this thread!! you can poke up the ramp with your scouting scv. if the toss skipped the zealot: go for it! kill the stalker, maybe the sentry. check if he has more gateways (warpaget will finish at about this time), or a robo. he will most likely chrono out an immortal. retreat and expand safely. you are ahead now. if he didn't skip the zealot, you can maybe try to kill the zealot with the sight of the scv and concussive shells, or just retreat. if the protoss moves out with his units (zealot, stalker) these are free kills, because of concussive shells (if you micro it correctly, you will get both; at least one unit). this is why i NEVER do this stalker poke up the terrans ramp so many people talk about. if there are marauders with shells roaming the map, you will most likely loose something. however, what I like to do is, I try to take a xel-naga tower. if you catch 1 marine and 1 marauder with one zealot and one stalker you can easily take this. so I advance to the xel-naga tower (BUT NOT TO THE TERRANS RAMP) and retreat with the zealot after I secured it and just leave the stalker there. the stalker is faster then marauders and you can retreat if this rax pressure is coming. count the marauders you see and react based on that information. | ||
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Elanshin
Australia216 Posts
At the higher levels, usually theres no tangible benefit to moving out but 1 in like 5 games you'll catch something for free. Also almost every good player knows the timings when warpgate finishes approximately and pulls away well in advance of that. If you do not know this timing, i suggest you either grab a pro's 4 gate (all in version) or just try it out against a computer. Think of it similar to vZ, if you dont move out you let toss do whatever he wants whether it be expo, 4 gate, 3 gate, dt, blink stalkers etc. you have 0 map presence. By moving out you force pressure on him and depending on his build he will generally have to make something to account for this small force. every advantage gained however small is useful. | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
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JamesSwift
United States71 Posts
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BullocH
Canada51 Posts
If a toss does an optimal open, ie: he doesn't F up and have tiny delays between probes, or slightly mistimed building placements etc, if he opens zealot stalker stalker w/ some level of chronos on his gate, almost irregardless of travel time, terran cant come up the ramp and hope for much. With exception being very close travel time and/or [i wanna say AND but might be an or] if terran drops his rax on 11 instead of 12, and his gas on 12 instead of 13, they can squeeze that rauder out a little quicker. Goody will use his scouter scv, in conjunction with another scv w/ 1 rine +1 rauder, w/ rally pt rauders reinforcing, and he'll often do the 11 rax, if toss screws up and buys a sentry, or is a bit slippery on his build and isn't optimal, or doesnt use chronos, then suddenly theres a flat out problem for toss, and he'll likely lose 2-6 probes and 0-2 pylons in addition to a few units that he mis macrod. Even with best case scenerio timings with both players builds, and terran gets to your ramp/up your ramp as fast and optimal as possible, bring 4 probes w/ your zealot + stalker, and chronos the 3rd unit you have making, and you should hold this w/o problem, and often if you have 2 surviving stalkers, you can rush past your kill and catch the reinforced maurader that was rally pted on route but was since turned around - often allowing you a short window to hold their lower ramp and/or delay an expo plan, since this build is often an opener to rax/CC play. cheers | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
Build order: 1v1 maps send all probes to mine, then after the first return trip of one of the far patch probes, take him and go to Terran base, he will usually arrive before or right as the depot is going down 9 pylon --> send this probe as 2nd probe cb x2 14 gate 15 gas 16pylon 17gate 17cybercore zeal probe probe (this probe can be substituted with an assimilator if you mean to tech) float minerals/gas 2x cb stalkers when core is done pylon warpgate You can force the pulling of a lot of scvs doing this, and can micro vs that first marine to do about 20 damage to him. He won't ever get this health back and you can return both probes home to mine again with full shields and maybe slight hull damage. Don't be overzealous though. | ||
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scrub96
United States76 Posts
On March 10 2011 01:14 JamesSwift wrote: @Daniel C - Adebisi recently did a good video that uses this opening to expand (well it is actually him doing a video on a style used by SelecT). Maybe it can help you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KpvXkKRfg I have been doing this build for the past few days. Fending off one base toss and early void ray pushes is proving to be difficult for me (high diamond). | ||
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