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never happened to me but i'd:
cancel barracks
flee with all workers out of base, in the open field
put workers on queue
micro rally point and each scv created out of base to eventually meet the rest
repeat 3 times, as you'll have the minerals from racks.
A-move with all workers
as i always scout at 9 or 10, and wall vs zerg i'm feel fairly safe. when seeing hordes of drones incoming i'd pull 6 workers to block remaining 2 slot entrance, put 3 on hold, 3 on repair and work from there.
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If your first supply is built at the ramp and if you scout with the scv that has built it, you could probably see the drones coming, cancel your current scv and close the wall with a second rax.
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On January 04 2011 23:01 danielsan wrote: never happened to me but i'd:
cancel barracks
flee with all workers out of base, in the open field
put workers on queue
micro rally point and each scv created out of base to eventually meet the rest
repeat 3 times, as you'll have the minerals from racks.
A-move with all workers
as i always scout at 9 or 10, and wall vs zerg i'm feel fairly safe. when seeing hordes of drones incoming i'd pull 6 workers to block remaining 2 slot entrance, put 3 on hold, 3 on repair and work from there.
If he had sent his first drone earlier wont he be able to mineral walk through your blockade?
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Load into CC and float to island if you can't repair. Heck, you might as well just set 4 SCVs on repair after you split. -_-'
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Cancel barracks, build another supply depot, keep producing scvs and stall with your own scvs for a little bit until additional scvs pop out.
They key is to not panic, don't lose the worker scv building the barracks, and usually gathering all your scvs together and a-moving into their big blob of workers works out as opposed to trying to use some really fancy micro. You should have 13-14 workers vs their 12.
Many zergs go for the supply depot at the wall and that gives you time to build more than 12 scvs, keep in mind most terrans build the barracks at 12 scvs and the drones always arrive a little bit after you start your barracks which means your equal in worker count.
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There are a few things that I know terrans should think about here:
- It is sometimes possible to cancel the currently queued SCV, halt the SCV building the Barrack and use it to create another Supply Depot. Send a few SCVs to repair and you should have won. You need to send a scouting SCV after Supply Depot for this to be possible. - Autorepairing SCVs cannot fight, and repair is expensive. Using 1-3 and microing them properly will help. - There is no "simple solution", such as "Just repair!" or "Haha, just a-move and free win!", it all comes down to micro. - Do NOT let the zerg kill any single lonely scv's, such as the building one. If you see them coming you might halt and go home, or even cancel. - On the other hand, do NOT stop mining totally unless you need to. Use your judgment. Remember that drone-army can pick off a single SCV faster than you can react. - Use mineralwalking. - Pull back weak SCVs and use them to mine, repair, or attack from a different angle.
Good luck.
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If the terran decides to wall in at the bottom of the ramp, your totally screwed.
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On January 04 2011 05:16 Saracen wrote: T can just wall off to stall until he gets the worker advantage.
Not on steppes unless you omnisciently cut worker production. You'll have just put your rax down and won't have the money for a supply depot.
The only way to counter this effectively on steppes is to cancel the rax, wait for your scouting worker to get back, and delay engagement as long as possible until you've converted your unspent minerals into extra workers. Only then can you safely beat the 12 drone rush.
People saying "wall off" and "juts micro your SCVs" are the people who lose when they finally see it on ladder.
On larger maps if scouted, you can definitely wall off though, but on steppes it would take quite the miss cleo to pull it off.
On January 05 2011 00:36 ReachTheSky wrote: If the terran decides to wall in at the bottom of the ramp, your totally screwed.
Now, that would probably cripple the rush. Do you know if the lower-ramp walling will change in the next patch? It's becoming so two pylons can't wall, does the same extend for SD/RAX?
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On January 04 2011 23:01 danielsan wrote: never happened to me but i'd:
cancel barracks
flee with all workers out of base, in the open field
put workers on queue
micro rally point and each scv created out of base to eventually meet the rest
repeat 3 times, as you'll have the minerals from racks.
A-move with all workers
as i always scout at 9 or 10, and wall vs zerg i'm feel fairly safe. when seeing hordes of drones incoming i'd pull 6 workers to block remaining 2 slot entrance, put 3 on hold, 3 on repair and work from there.
If I saw this happening, I'd know you're not mining, and I'd stay by your CC to kill all the scv's coming out.
I'm at work now, but I'll be on later today if any Terran player wants to test this out with me.
Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 00:36 ReachTheSky wrote: If the terran decides to wall in at the bottom of the ramp, your totally screwed. Now, that would probably cripple the rush. Do you know if the lower-ramp walling will change in the next patch? It's becoming so two pylons can't wall, does the same extend for SD/RAX?
I believe an SD/Rax can still wall. However, someone pointed out that you could get a huge surround on the Rax with drones. I'm not sure how long it would take to kill it, but Terran could probably squeeze out an extra SCV in that time.
However, lower-ramp walling is generally really stupid against Zerg. Roaches are range 4 and Barracks are size 3, so even range 6 Marauders can't reach them if they start attacking the rax. Additionally, Lings get a much better surround on the buildings, and ranged units are forced into a choke to defend. I don't generally see T players walling the bottom of their ramp because it switches the roles - now Z gets the concave that it wants and T gets the choke.
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I am 2600 Terran and I did face that twice, once in a tournament against 3200 Zerg, and once in a random custom game. After I lost against that in the tournament, I did some analysis.
I usually cancel everything that's building, split my workers into 3 groups basically. some need to mine, a couple run away out of the base, and some engange/distract the drones. Let him hit you once in a while, so that he thinks, he is doing damage. Or let him attack your command center, either way, just keep him somehow away from the choke. The goal is to get 200 + a couple of tens of minerals, and build 2 additional supply depots at the choke. If you did that right, you have basically all drones contained inside your own base. Lift your command center to your natural, start mining with those that fled, take 3 and put them on the choke and let them repair the supply depots. He is not able to break though that even with 12 drones, as you can repair faster.
By that time, it's over as the Zerg has nothing left. What the Zerg then can do is to kill his own drones to free up supply and start building drones at his main with the residual minerals. But who does that?
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I hope rax cancelling becomes the standard response to this, because if it does I'm going to try sending three or four drones out to fake the rush, leaving the rest at home to mine
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On January 05 2011 00:54 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 23:01 danielsan wrote: never happened to me but i'd:
cancel barracks
flee with all workers out of base, in the open field
put workers on queue
micro rally point and each scv created out of base to eventually meet the rest
repeat 3 times, as you'll have the minerals from racks.
A-move with all workers
as i always scout at 9 or 10, and wall vs zerg i'm feel fairly safe. when seeing hordes of drones incoming i'd pull 6 workers to block remaining 2 slot entrance, put 3 on hold, 3 on repair and work from there. If I saw this happening, I'd know you're not mining, and I'd stay by your CC to kill all the scv's coming out. I'm at work now, but I'll be on later today if any Terran player wants to test this out with me. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 00:36 ReachTheSky wrote: If the terran decides to wall in at the bottom of the ramp, your totally screwed. Now, that would probably cripple the rush. Do you know if the lower-ramp walling will change in the next patch? It's becoming so two pylons can't wall, does the same extend for SD/RAX? I believe an SD/Rax can still wall. However, someone pointed out that you could get a huge surround on the Rax with drones. I'm not sure how long it would take to kill it, but Terran could probably squeeze out an extra SCV in that time. However, lower-ramp walling is generally really stupid against Zerg. Roaches are range 4 and Barracks are size 3, so even range 6 Marauders can't reach them if they start attacking the rax. Additionally, Lings get a much better surround on the buildings, and ranged units are forced into a choke to defend. I don't generally see T players walling the bottom of their ramp because it switches the roles - now Z gets the concave that it wants and T gets the choke. we could try this, im also curious how it works as i believe i can dodge drones surrounding cc. i think ill be at home in 4 hours or so.
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On January 05 2011 01:24 Kwanny wrote:I am 2600 Terran and I did face that twice, once in a tournament against 3200 Zerg, and once in a random custom game. After I lost against that in the tournament, I did some analysis. I usually cancel everything that's building, split my workers into 3 groups basically. some need to mine, a couple run away out of the base, and some engange/distract the drones. Let him hit you once in a while, so that he thinks, he is doing damage. Or let him attack your command center, either way, just keep him somehow away from the choke. The goal is to get 200 + a couple of tens of minerals, and build 2 additional supply depots at the choke. If you did that right, you have basically all drones contained inside your own base. Lift your command center to your natural, start mining with those that fled, take 3 and put them on the choke and let them repair the supply depots. He is not able to break though that even with 12 drones, as you can repair faster. By that time, it's over as the Zerg has nothing left. What the Zerg then can do is to kill his own drones to free up supply and start building drones at his main with the residual minerals. But who does that? 
That's really really clever! But I'm surprised that once the CC lifts off, the drones can't do enough damage to the supply depots before it lands and you start mining again. He has probably a full minute from when it lifts off to when you'd start getting minerals to repair again, and there's 3 supply depots to attack.
Also, what if he forsees this, kills enough SCVs early on that he can sneak out a single drone before you put the supply depots down, and block your CC from landing? You'd be forced to go to the island expo, and that certainly won't be enough time to get repair money.
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Or. Lift off with 5 scv's, run the others away from the drones, go to either of the two rock protected expansions, and instantly start a barracks and continue to get your scv count up again.
And with those remaining scv's, keep the drones so busy they can't go back and mine. He won't have a chance in hell of taking down the rocks in time. He'll either GG, or be so far behind when you attack you will win.
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On January 05 2011 01:45 coko wrote: Or. Lift off with 5 scv's, run the others away from the drones, go to either of the two rock protected expansions, and instantly start a barracks and continue to get your scv count up again.
And with those remaining scv's, keep the drones so busy they can't go back and mine. He won't have a chance in hell of taking down the rocks in time. He'll either GG, or be so far behind when you attack you will win.
How would this work? Assuming you load up your SCVs right away and fly away, you're left with 5 vs the 12 drones. How exactly are you going to stop them from going back and mining? If you engage, you'd lose all your SCVs so quickly.
Lifting off with 5 SCVs is a very easy win for Z in my experience
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On January 05 2011 01:40 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 01:24 Kwanny wrote:I am 2600 Terran and I did face that twice, once in a tournament against 3200 Zerg, and once in a random custom game. After I lost against that in the tournament, I did some analysis. I usually cancel everything that's building, split my workers into 3 groups basically. some need to mine, a couple run away out of the base, and some engange/distract the drones. Let him hit you once in a while, so that he thinks, he is doing damage. Or let him attack your command center, either way, just keep him somehow away from the choke. The goal is to get 200 + a couple of tens of minerals, and build 2 additional supply depots at the choke. If you did that right, you have basically all drones contained inside your own base. Lift your command center to your natural, start mining with those that fled, take 3 and put them on the choke and let them repair the supply depots. He is not able to break though that even with 12 drones, as you can repair faster. By that time, it's over as the Zerg has nothing left. What the Zerg then can do is to kill his own drones to free up supply and start building drones at his main with the residual minerals. But who does that?  That's really really clever! But I'm surprised that once the CC lifts off, the drones can't do enough damage to the supply depots before it lands and you start mining again. He has probably a full minute from when it lifts off to when you'd start getting minerals to repair again, and there's 3 supply depots to attack. Also, what if he forsees this, kills enough SCVs early on that he can sneak out a single drone before you put the supply depots down, and block your CC from landing? You'd be forced to go to the island expo, and that certainly won't be enough time to get repair money.
when you have 3 supply depots up, the outer ones can be attacked by 5 drones. he has max 5+2 more drohnes. you need two scv to outrepair 5 drones. So in the worst case, you would need around 3 to 4 scvs to repair, but usually 3 because scv's can change the location to repair. By the time you lift off, the wall is already done, and you could still have a max of 5 scv's inside, to keep on distracting him, and you can load them up into the cc, while it is flying. If he has a drone at your nat, you just kill it with the fleeing 4/5 scv's. The command center needs 40 game seconds to move to your nat, that is not that long. You should have around 200 minerals if you cancel everything, so that you are actually gathering minerals to repair. I posted this because I managed to pull it off.
This is another way of playing, but haven't tried it yet Not sure if it works either. gather 200 minerals, complete the wall, take all scv's you can get, and just go f*cking kill his hatch, as day9 would say.
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I've defended by sending an early scout out and if I see it I pull 3 extra scvs and attack from behind with my scout, usually I can scare off the 4 harassing drones sometimes killing 1 and losing no SCVs.
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On January 05 2011 02:01 Kwanny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 01:40 fdsdfg wrote:On January 05 2011 01:24 Kwanny wrote:I am 2600 Terran and I did face that twice, once in a tournament against 3200 Zerg, and once in a random custom game. After I lost against that in the tournament, I did some analysis. I usually cancel everything that's building, split my workers into 3 groups basically. some need to mine, a couple run away out of the base, and some engange/distract the drones. Let him hit you once in a while, so that he thinks, he is doing damage. Or let him attack your command center, either way, just keep him somehow away from the choke. The goal is to get 200 + a couple of tens of minerals, and build 2 additional supply depots at the choke. If you did that right, you have basically all drones contained inside your own base. Lift your command center to your natural, start mining with those that fled, take 3 and put them on the choke and let them repair the supply depots. He is not able to break though that even with 12 drones, as you can repair faster. By that time, it's over as the Zerg has nothing left. What the Zerg then can do is to kill his own drones to free up supply and start building drones at his main with the residual minerals. But who does that?  That's really really clever! But I'm surprised that once the CC lifts off, the drones can't do enough damage to the supply depots before it lands and you start mining again. He has probably a full minute from when it lifts off to when you'd start getting minerals to repair again, and there's 3 supply depots to attack. Also, what if he forsees this, kills enough SCVs early on that he can sneak out a single drone before you put the supply depots down, and block your CC from landing? You'd be forced to go to the island expo, and that certainly won't be enough time to get repair money. when you have 3 supply depots up, the outer ones can be attacked by 5 drones. he has max 5+2 more drohnes. you need two scv to outrepair 5 drones. So in the worst case, you would need around 3 to 4 scvs to repair, but usually 3 because scv's can change the location to repair. By the time you lift off, the wall is already done, and you could still have a max of 5 scv's inside, to keep on distracting him, and you can load them up into the cc, while it is flying. If he has a drone at your nat, you just kill it with the fleeing 4/5 scv's. The command center needs 40 game seconds to move to your nat, that is not that long. You should have around 200 minerals if you cancel everything, so that you are actually gathering minerals to repair. I posted this because I managed to pull it off. This is another way of playing, but haven't tried it yet Not sure if it works either. gather 200 minerals, complete the wall, take all scv's you can get, and just go f*cking kill his hatch, as day9 would say.
I'd love to test this out with you, because I had someone who tried to keep a few SCVs mining while fighting off my drones, and I could very effectively mineral walk and pick off his mining SCVs with target fire. As long as some drones are on A-move, your A-moving SCVs will not target the mineral-walking drones.
Is mineral walk being completely removed in 1.2? How does that work?
On January 05 2011 02:18 SilverPotato wrote: I've defended by sending an early scout out and if I see it I pull 3 extra scvs and attack from behind with my scout, usually I can scare off the 4 harassing drones sometimes killing 1 and losing no SCVs.
The OP is really detailed, and even includes a video. Read more than the topic title if you want to share your ideas on how to beat something.
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how about lift the cc and go kill his hatch with your svcs haha. if he follows you just make more svcs and mine.
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I watching QXCs stream a week or two ago, and he was drone rushed on Steppes, and he lost. After he lost he talked about it for a little while and seemed to think that he had a good idea with putting his critically injured SCVs inside his command center since the SCVs can repair each other inside there.
I never got to see him test it out, but it sounded decent. Although, it would be hard to get the correct SCVs inside when you have all your SCVs right there.
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