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ZvT on Steppes - Drone rush - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Danger-dog
Profile Joined April 2006
United States50 Posts
January 04 2011 17:50 GMT
#41
Has the zergling really been nerfed so much that it's become more powerful to attack with drones? I miss BW. But MBS has made me weak and now I can't go back.
Here Lies The Zerg Lurker, R.I.P. 1998-2010.
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-04 18:53:26
January 04 2011 18:53 GMT
#42
A lot of people have mentioned just lifting off. So why not? You can counter attack his hatch, while rebuilding your base somewhere safe. Can someone comment on this? At worst you'll just wind up even.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
January 04 2011 19:07 GMT
#43
On January 05 2011 02:40 boblzer0 wrote:
how about lift the cc and go kill his hatch with your svcs haha. if he follows you just make more svcs and mine.



i was thinking the same. just gather all ur scvs, move them around his drones and leave for his base. he has only one building, his hatch, so he has to follow u back there to prevent the scvs from killing it off, as he cant finish u with drones (lift-off is such a cool ability..)

if u didnt lose scvs until then, he has to go back with all his drones to be able to fight successfully against ur scvs and prevent them from killing him off. in the meantime u can start producing new scvs and let them mine. u can always abuse the mineral walk to get ur scvs out of ur own base and later to make them get out of his base aswell.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
January 04 2011 19:13 GMT
#44
I never thought that I´d ever see a game where Idra wins without a pool.

Unless he switches races.

Anyways if he fights you in a narrow choke like in the video you can put the svcs in the back on auto repair and probably defense pretty easily since you should have repair + more workers.
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
SoftSoap
Profile Joined November 2010
United States170 Posts
January 04 2011 19:25 GMT
#45
On January 04 2011 04:50 JiSu wrote:
On maps like these just scout and build SD early like 9 instead at 10. SD at 9 scout at 9. Make sure no dumb cheese happen


So your saying on steppes of war , you see your opponent building drones then that means they are going to rush you rofl? Wrong, this is a strong build its not easy to scout it either. It starts off with a typical 9 ov. into drone production. you scout it once the drones are pulled off the line.

i think the correct response is to always prepare if ur getting zerg on steppes. such as sd placement.
Tasteless, "IdrA always pulls out on time."
DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
January 04 2011 19:26 GMT
#46
lifting off is not a good choice, drones will just go back mining and you will be so far behind
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-04 19:48:43
January 04 2011 19:48 GMT
#47
On January 05 2011 02:50 Danger-dog wrote:
Has the zergling really been nerfed so much that it's become more powerful to attack with drones? I miss BW. But MBS has made me weak and now I can't go back.


This has more to do with the marine being buffed so much that 1 marine completely destroys 1 zergling with 0 micro, where as the zergling used to win that scenario in BW.

The power of the drone rush is that it hits before the barracks is finished.

It basically gives you a micro-intensive game where you have the opportunity to straight up out-play your opponent, which is your best opportunity on steppes in a ZvT.

A lot of small issues go into it, but this will maintain as one of the strongest Z openers on this map until something changes.

On a related note, I wonder if removal of worker floating is enough to stop this kind of thing from being effective.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
LolBruzUMad
Profile Joined January 2011
1 Post
January 04 2011 20:22 GMT
#48
How does this EVER work.. all the T has to do is cancel the rax, not engage till 1-2 more SCV's pop. And engage - retreat - hit auto repair on every SCV - re-engage. GG, done and done.
Meatpuppet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States86 Posts
January 04 2011 20:31 GMT
#49
I'm sure other people have considered this, but wouldn't the strategy be completely bust if the terran just loads up the 5 scvs he can floats to the nearby expo behind the destructable rocks and continiues base operations there. Doesn't matter if starting depot is destroyed, send the remaining scvs to the zerg base to work on his hatch and make him divide drones if he wants to chase the floating command center. I don't think zerg can win if he has to chase the cc back and forth defend hatch at home and prevent the terran from mining mins........even if he can't build any structures. can't he eventually just try to hide the construction of a new command center somewhere if the zerg won't let him build a depot. I'll try the strategy myself and post soon, but I am a zerg player and don't get too many chances to play, my computer is crap and I have to borrow a friend's laptop to run sc2. It would certainly at least be hilarious to watch this strategy in action.
I am the walrus
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
January 04 2011 20:37 GMT
#50
On January 05 2011 05:31 Meatpuppet wrote:
I'm sure other people have considered this, but wouldn't the strategy be completely bust if the terran just loads up the 5 scvs he can floats to the nearby expo behind the destructable rocks and continiues base operations there. Doesn't matter if starting depot is destroyed, send the remaining scvs to the zerg base to work on his hatch and make him divide drones if he wants to chase the floating command center. I don't think zerg can win if he has to chase the cc back and forth defend hatch at home and prevent the terran from mining mins........even if he can't build any structures. can't he eventually just try to hide the construction of a new command center somewhere if the zerg won't let him build a depot. I'll try the strategy myself and post soon, but I am a zerg player and don't get too many chances to play, my computer is crap and I have to borrow a friend's laptop to run sc2. It would certainly at least be hilarious to watch this strategy in action.

In your scenario, Terran loaded 5 SCVs, leaving him with a maximum of 8 to fight against 12 Drones. Okay, so let's imagine Zerg chases the 8 SCVs with 10 Drones, and now mines with 2. Meanwhile, Terran needs to float all the way over to the new base. Zerg will undoubtably be ahead after this exchange.
Moderator
sCFade
Profile Joined September 2010
307 Posts
January 04 2011 20:38 GMT
#51
Seriously, guys? I'm astounded at the amount of stupid advice in this thread.

Cancel your Barracks, wait for 3 SCVs. Forget all that dumb bullshit about auto repair and CC micro, just fight him on open ground. You will outnumber him and win.

User was warned for this post
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
January 04 2011 20:39 GMT
#52
This has been discussed to death. I'm just hoping that whenever 1.2 comes out, Steppes of War is G O N E gone.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
fdsdfg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1251 Posts
January 04 2011 20:43 GMT
#53
On January 05 2011 05:38 sCFade wrote:
Seriously, guys? I'm astounded at the amount of stupid advice in this thread.

Cancel your Barracks, wait for 3 SCVs. Forget all that dumb bullshit about auto repair and CC micro, just fight him on open ground. You will outnumber him and win.


If you're astounded at the amount of stupid advice, why contribute more?

It's not a simple 'you idiots, just do X'. If it were, this strategy would never work.

How do you define 'waiting' for 3 scvs? Run the SCVs around? Then a couple get picked off, as do the ones leaving your CC. Now you're behind 10 to 12 and you lose.
aka Siyko
Meatpuppet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States86 Posts
January 04 2011 20:51 GMT
#54
chill, terran won't have 8 scvs, he'll only be limited to 11 supply IF zerg destroys the supply depot. so the zerg with 12 drones, sees the cc float off with 5 scvs in it, leaving 6-7 behind, all send past the drones to the hatch at home correct. stays a few second to destroy the supply depot, and one could try to micro harrass the destruction of the depot, but i don't think that'd be a good idea with a 12 drone vs 6-7 scv. It won't take that long to reach the new cc site, so zerg takes approx 7 drones to defend home, leaving 5 to go after the cc. the timing of those 5 drones reaching the new mining site is everything, but i think the destructable rocks forcing the long detour round gives enough time to get at least one mining cycle done. that would be enough to eventually win. terran just can't allow zerg to build an overlord and continue mining himself
I am the walrus
fdsdfg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1251 Posts
January 04 2011 20:56 GMT
#55
On January 05 2011 05:51 Meatpuppet wrote:
chill, terran won't have 8 scvs, he'll only be limited to 11 supply IF zerg destroys the supply depot. so the zerg with 12 drones, sees the cc float off with 5 scvs in it, leaving 6-7 behind, all send past the drones to the hatch at home correct. stays a few second to destroy the supply depot, and one could try to micro harrass the destruction of the depot, but i don't think that'd be a good idea with a 12 drone vs 6-7 scv. It won't take that long to reach the new cc site, so zerg takes approx 7 drones to defend home, leaving 5 to go after the cc. the timing of those 5 drones reaching the new mining site is everything, but i think the destructable rocks forcing the long detour round gives enough time to get at least one mining cycle done. that would be enough to eventually win. terran just can't allow zerg to build an overlord and continue mining himself


I think you're missing the point - Z isn't going to try to immediately shutdown T's liftoff. He will make sure T has to fly far and doesn't just land immediately, kill whatever SCVs are trying to harass Z's mining, and end up resetting the game by the time T lands the CC. Except now T has 5 workers and Z has >10. It's basically like letting Z play for 2-3 minutes before the T can play - that's way too large of an advantage for T to come back. If Z is stupid and tries to break down the wall immediately, he might lose - but if Z just carefully techs to mutas on 2 bases and gets them out before T can get a factory done, it's hopeless.
aka Siyko
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-04 21:02:29
January 04 2011 20:58 GMT
#56
Chill is right, lifting the CC = fail. All the zerg has to do is chase your remaining scvs with as many scvs as there are + 1 drones, kill the supply depot with another drone, and mine with the rest. You land your CC, you have 5 SCVs and need to build another depot to build a rax or keep producing SCVs, you can't attack any time soon and you get massively out-droned.

There is no easy counter to the drone rush (at least not that anyone knows of), if it was easy for you to stop, he just executed it badly. It's a micro battle and it can go either way.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Meatpuppet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States86 Posts
January 04 2011 21:11 GMT
#57
strange how you all speak definately. Without testing, the strategy I suggested was theoretical.....perhaps keep the discussion theoretical. I think there is a reasonable chance floating the cc is a bust to the strategy. Many don't want to consider it cause it's such a newb move, while drone rushing is typically a gosu player have fun with the chobos. At least test the strategy before you trash it. For instance iEchoic, I think you overestimate the advantage zerg might have, perhaps destroying the depot and sending ALL drones back home is the best response, but does it gaurantee vitory, I am doubtful. terran did get a free 10-20 secs of mining time as zerg ran his drones across the map. and if terran sees all the drones come back home, he'd be an idiot to fight 12 drones with 7 scvs. if he send his 7 scvs back home and instantly build a new depot at new cc spot, it could be interesting.
I am the walrus
SC2Real
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany184 Posts
January 04 2011 21:12 GMT
#58
-cancel rax
-avoid drones with your scv's (run around the cc once)
-head for the hatch with all your scv's and lift off cc (don't move the cc)
-take one attacking scv and build a supply depot in a hidden spot somewhere on the map

1. if you see him backing off, immediately (so that he can see it) land the cc and produce scv's
2. if he stays, kill the hatch, lol

should work? ^^
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
January 04 2011 21:15 GMT
#59
On January 05 2011 06:11 Meatpuppet wrote:
strange how you all speak definately. Without testing, the strategy I suggested was theoretical.....perhaps keep the discussion theoretical.


It's not theoretical, I've tried lifting my CC - I posted earlier that I've practiced vs this many times. I'm just explaining what happened (which is pretty much what Chill said) - you end up having less workers and no opportunity for aggression. No competent zerg player is going to let you win from there.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Meatpuppet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States86 Posts
January 04 2011 21:17 GMT
#60
-cancel rax
-avoid drones with your scv's (run around the cc once)
-head for the hatch with all your scv's and lift off cc (don't move the cc)
-take one attacking scv and build a supply depot in a hidden spot somewhere on the map

1. if you see him backing off, immediately (so that he can see it) land the cc and produce scv's
2. if he stays, kill the hatch, lol

should work? ^^


I like that strategy too, at the very least I think there is a good chance that using some sort of strategy built around floating the cc might bust this cheese.
I am the walrus
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