EPT[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 4
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ducis
Canada96 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 03 2010 06:47 Superouman wrote: At the game on jungle basin, at 19:00, you would normally lose, he had twice your supply and he didn't counter attack just after rolling over you ;_; Similarly, at 15 Minutes, after the first fight when I had more than 50 food than him, I could have easily rolled his third. For all he knows I have another 200/200 food army hiding, and indeed, it took less than 1-2 minutes to replenish my forces. There are execution/player mistakes in every game. I'm not a pro-player, I make mistakes, in this case it was map awareness and composition awareness. The over-all effectiveness of a build is if it works in the long run. | ||
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McLiu
4 Posts
I never said that you couldn't hide it. I was just saying if scouted. If anything is scouted, anything can be prevented. And reacted to. Which is why scouting is important. Obviously. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
Things I think would improve this build: Fewer rauders and more medivacs/tanks Earlier gas, getting 2 geysers straight after the 2 CCs possibly and the next 2 with the expo When you push out, take your 3rd with an OC(heck possibly try get 4th depending on map/make cc next to it that switches with OC for PF) Mainly for the Jungle basin game, hide the CCs better. On that particular map, you could've gotten away with those CCs without any chance of being spotted(which they ended up not getting anyway) but you kind of placed it for anyone to see. I'd say less turrets. Concussive shells. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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bball2
Canada49 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
I mean, no gas until 33 food - so no tech lab = no marauders, no stim pack. Your marines are just baneling food. Obviously you can bunker up, but he would just sit outside your base w/ a contain that you won't be able to break without stim or A LOT of marines. And while you're building that he's going to take an extra expansion. I understand this doesn't necessarily affect your mineral count because mules will be able to keep you on par with the zerg, but you'll obviously suffer in gas, and banelings are a very effective counter to marines. Seems like you need to get gas after your first OC just to get a few marauders and stim pack out, otherwise you won't be able to do a second push until probably 60-70 food, when stim finishes and you have several marauders... and it'll be the push that normally comes around 45-50. The premise of building a bunch of orbital commands as an augmentation to a terran 3 rax push seems pretty attractive. The endgame 200/200 push full of MMM seems like a bad idea against a quailty zerg, who will just baneling FG your entire army in 5 seconds. But if you augment the build and dump more of the gas into tanks and the minerals mostly into marines it'd probably be pretty potent. | ||
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:58 DuneBug wrote: Actually the biggest flaw in this build seems to be the weakness to early zerg pressure with only 2 barracks and no gas. If I scout no gas with my scouting drone i assume a marine rush or FE. I mean, no gas until 33 food - so no tech lab = no marauders, no stim pack. Your marines are just baneling food. Obviously you can bunker up, but he would just sit outside your base w/ a contain that you won't be able to break without stim or A LOT of marines. And while you're building that he's going to take an extra expansion. I understand this doesn't necessarily affect your mineral count because mules will be able to keep you on par with the zerg, but you'll obviously suffer in gas, and banelings are a very effective counter to marines. Seems like you need to get gas after your first OC just to get a few marauders and stim pack out, otherwise you won't be able to do a second push until probably 60-70 food, when stim finishes and you have several marauders... and it'll be the push that normally comes around 45-50. The premise of building a bunch of orbital commands as an augmentation to a terran 3 rax push seems pretty attractive. The endgame 200/200 push full of MMM seems like a bad idea against a quailty zerg, who will just baneling FG your entire army in 5 seconds. But if you augment the build and dump more of the gas into tanks and the minerals mostly into marines it'd probably be pretty potent. Thanks for the feedback. Firstly, I agree that adding some tanks to the 13 minute push would make it exponentially more dangerous, I'm working with a few other 2k+ terrans to try and figure out the timing on how to do it at 13 minutes. I'm aware of the "contain", but your nat expo can usually be secured without too much difficulty using bunkers/wellplaced raxes. And the units used for that contain could have been drones. As for zerg expanding to 3-4 bases. Again, the timing is such that although it alllows them to get that 3rd or 4th up, the attack comes just as the zerg wants to power drone. In most replays the zerg is up 1-2 bases/expos, but it doesn't raelly matter because the build will provide the same mineral income as four bases. A 13minute push isn't really "end-game", most zergs won't even be able to get infestors out. | ||
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On December 03 2010 06:00 Reason.SC2 wrote: This thread just gave me a brain tumor. This strategy is so bad it hurts. You lose to just about anything other than 1 basing player who doesnt scout, expand, or tech. glhf This ^ Made me laugh quite loudly while sitting at my desk at work. Awkward. It might have been mentioned above but for reaffirmation - whether pumping FOUR OC's is viable or not the concept of mass MULE farming instead of scv reliance seems to be a significant factor in Terran macro approaches. So while this build may not be 100% stable (haven't tried it yet so cannot say) it provides a starting point to achieving this strategy. Great work! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
I do a similar open, but it's 2 rax marine pressure -> CC at 27 and oversat my main until I hit tanks, then throw down the expo and take a quick third on dual fac tank marine pushes. THAT works. This? I don't see it happening well vs a quality opponent. Scouting errors and stupid mistakes would lose to this crap, easily though. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
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understandable
Korea (South)79 Posts
on topic: fun build, i can see it working in some maps, ill try it with some tweaks like early gas/faster 3rd/ CONC SHELLS!!!!!!!! ty! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:14 Sm3agol wrote: I can't wait for the people hardcore dissing this build to run into it on ladder with a competent player using it. They scout the raxs and gear up for an attack. It doesn't come, other than harass, so they scout the expo, take one themselves and start teching up. 1 minute later a 200/200 bio-ball comes in and steamrolls their crap. They barely hold it, losing their expo, and get about 20 units out before the second 200/200 ball comes rolling in. After that 'attack that doesn't come' they sac and OL and see oh wow 4 CCs and a lot of raxes. No good player plays blind after being denied scouting. They either hit, or scout and expo. To guy above -- some of us are tired with every nobody claiming and naming any crap fluke open by their name so they can make their mark. It's getting old. Look at all the named builds of people, find one beyond pookie thats a good player. echoic and kcdc kinda fell off the ladder wagon and dropped down low in points. It's just old people trying to make their mark on a game that's not even a year old. Just play the game, actually TRY your AWESOME STRAT before you advertise it to other gullible noobies like us who eat anything up, and then get rolled when someone scouts it and busts us, or forward proxy pylon warps you, or blinks into your base and picks you off. | ||
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AnodyneSea
Jamaica757 Posts
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ducis
Canada96 Posts
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:14 Sm3agol wrote: I can't wait for the people hardcore dissing this build to run into it on ladder with a competent player using it. They scout the raxs and gear up for an attack. It doesn't come, other than harass, so they scout the expo, take one themselves and start teching up. 1 minute later a 200/200 bio-ball comes in and steamrolls their crap. They barely hold it, losing their expo, and get about 20 units out before the second 200/200 ball comes rolling in. Assumptions in your build make for bad play. The point people are making is that if you're wrong and it IS scouted, you are going to have your hands full against a decent player. That said, the idea is interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if people started doing similar things for extra mules, because they're stupid good. But posting here does mean all the pros and cons will be discussed, only makes builds better in the end though. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:20 McLiu wrote: If anything is scouted, anything can be prevented. And reacted to. Which is why scouting is important. Obviously. That's why it wouldn't be a standard build. Standard builds rarely rely on being completely hidden and only succeed if that's the case. There's a reason twoport banshee isn't standard. But thanks. | ||
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