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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:52 30to1 wrote: I just actually watched these replays and I'm a little disappointed. Maybe you guys are high rated but those were very bad games. Did you have an agreement with him that he wouldn't do anything till 10 minutes or so? No there was no agreement. | ||
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itzjohnny
62 Posts
If he had scouted better, i think he could have better prepared it for himself. Then again, he did see all he needed to see with that first group of mutas and he still continued to make drones as opposed to pure army. Honestly, if I saw a group of MM that big with 1/1, I'd be a little worried if I only had a bunch of banelings. With just decent control, huge disasters can be minimized as you have done. So I think the Zerg underestimated his army vs yours. Another thing to note, your fast OC's benefit you until the Zerg starts to get their 3rd functioning. After that, it just falls back to standard play. So if your first 200 push fails, I don't see you coming back out of that since those MULEs sped up the mining process faster than it really should be, depleting your minerals faster. I guess that could have been avoided temporarily if you had established another base before you went to attack because your main was fairly mined out at that point. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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30to1
105 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
The payoff takes too long for Mass OC to ramp up before zerg feels like straight up destroying you. | ||
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kankerganker
Denmark58 Posts
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On December 03 2010 14:06 kankerganker wrote: so much HERP DERP THIS BUILD SUX LOL THE ZERG SUX LOL so few replays of the build losing Because that is clearly the best way to determine a build's effectiveness. | ||
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fUddO
Canada197 Posts
On December 03 2010 14:08 sixghost wrote: Because that is clearly the best way to determine a build's effectiveness. Actually, it would be. I want to see how this build would fair in the hands of a competent player under pressure. | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
So probably 66 food of drones, 25 food banelings, 16 food of infestors and the remainder was virtually all zerglings. I'd feel pretty comfortable fending off hordes of marines with 50 banelings and 8 full energy infestors.. At least enough to keep my other bases defended from that push. I don't understand how you expect to macro up a 200/200 army immediately though. Even on 16 rax that's 16 food every 25 seconds.. I'll assume something more like 20 rax... So you need 8 prod cycles which is 200 seconds... And you can't start building until the rest of your shit dies... Obviously you'll have a second push ready within 3 minutes, but a zerg can mass quite a bit of stuff in 3 minutes. I'm not saying the build is unviable, i don't think it would be a gimme for the zerg in any fashion. Probably the best thing to do against it is baneling drops trying to pick off mules, or fast tech to zergling brood lord... But you wouldn't know that from the early scout so i don't think hive tech would arrive in time. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On December 03 2010 14:19 DuneBug wrote: Did some testing as zerg, with rather unimpressive macro and about 20 larva invested into zerglings around the 25 food mark I was able to have about 50 banelings, lots and 8 infestors (with gland) out by the 13 minute mark. I had 4 hatcheries up but only 2 saturated, working on the 3rd. Creep was rolled out to the middle of the map. My total food was about 130, which was what you expected. So probably 66 food of drones, 25 food banelings, 16 food of infestors and the remainder was virtually all zerglings. I'd feel pretty comfortable fending off hordes of marines with 50 banelings and 8 full energy infestors.. At least enough to keep my other bases defended from that push. I don't understand how you expect to macro up a 200/200 army immediately though. Even on 16 rax that's 16 food every 25 seconds.. I'll assume something more like 20 rax... So you need 8 prod cycles which is 200 seconds... And you can't start building until the rest of your shit dies... Obviously you'll have a second push ready within 3 minutes, but a zerg can mass quite a bit of stuff in 3 minutes. I'm not saying the build is unviable, i don't think it would be a gimme for the zerg in any fashion. Probably the best thing to do against it is baneling drops trying to pick off mules, or fast tech to zergling brood lord... But you wouldn't know that from the early scout so i don't think hive tech would arrive in time. Its really a 140/200 army (60 food goes to SCVs), to replenish 140 food, its not INSTANT, obviously, but it'll let Terran have re-plenish macro thats almost as fast as zerg. Zerg, hands-down, has the fastest re-army speed of any race. | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
So post replays as you get them, I will try to upload some as well. | ||
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
Planetary Fortresses are imbalanced if they are attacked, but even then they aren't even that good if they are not repaired, and pretty much every race has ways to kill PFs without taking too much damage (even with something like roaches, if it's not repaired (cause of blings) and there are 15+ roaches the PF maybe barely kills stuff worth its costs) I don't like Planetary Fortresses at all, they suck and they are not nearly as versatile as OCs. Imo they are just used because everyone is lazy and because way back in the beta people started to attack PFs without a plan and lost 100 supply because it got repaired, but the amount of money you need to secure an expansion just as good as a PF would do is provided by an OC with mules in about 3-4 minutes. | ||
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AraqirG
United States266 Posts
1. Holy macro batman, you get an insane income with all the OCs. Its legitimately hard to spend all your money late game with this build. 2. You still have to build a lot of supply depots. While early game, CCs make great replacements for depots, late game it doesn't work since your supply is increasing too fast and CCs take too long to make. 3. Late midgame/lategame you basically have maphacks. Soo many scans  4. I've adapted the build a little and it can work against toss on maps with narrow chokes to the natural (LT and steps) I still have a lot more testing to do to see if this is viable vs high diamond players on a regular basis but my initial feeling is if you can time the transitions and hit important timings, this build could be pretty strong. Replays soon. | ||
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On December 03 2010 14:06 kankerganker wrote: so much HERP DERP THIS BUILD SUX LOL THE ZERG SUX LOL so few replays of the build losing So much HERP DERP THIS BUILD IS AWESOME LOLO no replay of the build winning. | ||
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Weirdkid
Singapore2431 Posts
It is hilarious when it works though Zerging the zerg for a change feels pretty nice.Point to note though for people wanting to try this, you might want to float your 3rd and 4th to other expos at your second 200/200 attack because that's when your minerals start running out, if indeed you're only attack at max army Thanks for the idea. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
LoL maybe one day people will recognize the signs of a 4 OC rush ^____^ Against Protoss you need 4 gas to get mass vikings and ghosts out. | ||
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Spiegel
Australia79 Posts
It seems like a decent economic cheese to me. I watched the second replay, your opponent wasn't the best but you owned him thoroughly despite your own similarly imperfect play. | ||
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Kaitsuh
Finland45 Posts
But soon as someone mentions that maybe it's worth making a extra OC for even faster saturation, some folks go crazy and get angry. Who decided that the arbitrary formula of "make 1 worker at a time per base, and no faster than that" is the optimal way of doing things? As a zerg I'm watching this type of play coming up with great interest. Surely there's situations or builds where the terran can flip the tables and go "If you don't pressure ME, I'll make a shitload of SCVs instead"  | ||
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ABAH
Australia43 Posts
I'm really not convinced by this strategy.. Ret can max after 14 mins with zerg without. All this does is it gets terran to max faster, but at the cost of the late game -> if the push fails u should essentially lose (the fact u didnt in the reps is moot) | ||
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