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[G] ZvZ - 3 different builds - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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SnowSC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States678 Posts
November 30 2010 18:25 GMT
#61
In the middle build you can actually get an extra ovie in there and be fine. i usually go

14gas
14pool
15 ovie
queen, meta on pool finish, bane at 20 or 21. I push in with my first lings and if i see a roach waren i cancel the bane and build a roach warren myself.
Weken
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom580 Posts
November 30 2010 18:32 GMT
#62
Thanks so much for these builds I will go and cheak them out later. Ive been so lost trying to find good, stable builds in ZvZ
SnowSC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States678 Posts
November 30 2010 19:56 GMT
#63
yeah the thing about zvz is youll often find your opponent doing the same damn build as your doing in a lot of the games. I usually use zerglings to buffer my banelings into the mineral line when i get the chance, because in zvz where both players often do the same thing its the little advantages that count. If you manage to, for instance, kill off 1/3rd of his drones with those initial baneling then you can run with it and pull the game through by just playing smart.
Ashera
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada202 Posts
November 30 2010 19:58 GMT
#64
Great strategies, I definitely like the Roach opening. Will use that in more ZvZ
Viva la Vida
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
December 01 2010 23:21 GMT
#65
Thanks for this

it makes me want to get some coaching with machine
Try another route paperboy.
Qtlisk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
December 02 2010 02:26 GMT
#66
I've been having trouble with 2 base muta when I'm going the 2 base roach build, seems like he gets too many mutas out before I am able to get enough hydras out, even with an infestor or two for support. Anyone else having this kind of problem?
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 07:20:30
December 02 2010 07:19 GMT
#67
On December 02 2010 11:26 Qtlisk wrote:
I've been having trouble with 2 base muta when I'm going the 2 base roach build, seems like he gets too many mutas out before I am able to get enough hydras out, even with an infestor or two for support. Anyone else having this kind of problem?


Where, in any of this, did you read about a 2 base roach build?

Are you talking about a regular FE?

If yes, you're probably skipping the lings, applying no pressure at all, and allowing him to tech freely while you do nothing.

This is the wrong way to FE.



Regardless, if he goes muta, he's cutting units. There's a timing you can exploit to kill him. You need to watch some of your replays (or post them here if you need someone to do it for you) and determine when you need to be attacking, and then make sure you hit that timing next time you run into a player going muta.
carrion
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom87 Posts
December 02 2010 18:11 GMT
#68
Ive been FEing in zvz and cant decide when to get gas. Is it better to delay gas and use spine crawlers and slowlings to defend vs any early pressure, or get gas for roaches/banelings/speed. Particularly ive found that the 2 base speedling build is hard to hold off without gas for banes. Is it dependent on scouting?
Qtlisk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
December 02 2010 20:09 GMT
#69
On December 02 2010 16:19 MrBitter wrote:


Where, in any of this, did you read about a 2 base roach build?

Are you talking about a regular FE?

If yes, you're probably skipping the lings, applying no pressure at all, and allowing him to tech freely while you do nothing.

This is the wrong way to FE.



Regardless, if he goes muta, he's cutting units. There's a timing you can exploit to kill him. You need to watch some of your replays (or post them here if you need someone to do it for you) and determine when you need to be attacking, and then make sure you hit that timing next time you run into a player going muta.


Yes, I was talking about the FE build, sorry if that was confusing. Thanks for the input, I'll try to remember to save some of my replays when this happens to me. Love the stream btw :D
nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
December 02 2010 22:21 GMT
#70
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 02 2010 22:48 GMT
#71
On December 03 2010 07:21 nicke10 wrote:
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.


Well, for starters, roach plays in general aren't very good at punishing fast expands.

If you scout a FE, or expect a FE (meaning hatch first) then don't go roach.

If he goes pool first, and then expands, and you're still struggling to punish it, the problem is in your execution.

nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 23:07:07
December 02 2010 23:06 GMT
#72
On December 03 2010 07:48 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 07:21 nicke10 wrote:
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.


Well, for starters, roach plays in general aren't very good at punishing fast expands.

If you scout a FE, or expect a FE (meaning hatch first) then don't go roach.

If he goes pool first, and then expands, and you're still struggling to punish it, the problem is in your execution.



The push comes around the time my lair finishes, then he has his expansion and more roaches.

He lays down the expansion and has equally my roach numbers so I can't push and punish.

Replay below.

[image loading]
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Andre112
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada52 Posts
December 07 2010 02:38 GMT
#73
when you do FE and your opponent goes roach and expand, when should i get gas?
it seems like ppl always race for muta and if i get gas late, my lair is late, and I just die
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 07 2010 04:23 GMT
#74
On December 07 2010 11:38 Andre112 wrote:
when you do FE and your opponent goes roach and expand, when should i get gas?
it seems like ppl always race for muta and if i get gas late, my lair is late, and I just die


Same time as your pool... Just like if you were playing 1 base.
Andre112
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada52 Posts
December 07 2010 18:44 GMT
#75
under what situation would you gas at 40 food?
that's what machine said when he taught you the FE build.
Sanasante
Profile Joined March 2010
United States321 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 18:58:05
December 07 2010 18:55 GMT
#76
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light
Jahzaa
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany30 Posts
December 20 2010 23:17 GMT
#77
Vod offline??
Legalize StimPack
winedz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States92 Posts
December 21 2010 02:12 GMT
#78
On December 08 2010 03:55 Sanasante wrote:
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.


I feel that this is very risky, as it is punishable with a decent roach timing push. Thoughts?
zylog
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada943 Posts
December 21 2010 03:41 GMT
#79
On December 08 2010 03:55 Sanasante wrote:
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.


If they stay on 1 base ling/baneling and keep pressuring, won't you probably lose from having 300/350 minerals less spent on lings?
mikertrx
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands3 Posts
December 21 2010 05:17 GMT
#80
any1 knows where i can watch the video? cause its down
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