• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:05
CEST 20:05
KST 03:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0
StarCraft 2
General
Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion VPN experiences Data needed vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Beyond All Reason Total War: Warhammer 40K
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
STNG Esports: Built in Scotl…
Lispify
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14745 users

[G] ZvZ - 3 different builds - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
SnowSC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States678 Posts
November 30 2010 18:25 GMT
#61
In the middle build you can actually get an extra ovie in there and be fine. i usually go

14gas
14pool
15 ovie
queen, meta on pool finish, bane at 20 or 21. I push in with my first lings and if i see a roach waren i cancel the bane and build a roach warren myself.
Weken
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom580 Posts
November 30 2010 18:32 GMT
#62
Thanks so much for these builds I will go and cheak them out later. Ive been so lost trying to find good, stable builds in ZvZ
SnowSC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States678 Posts
November 30 2010 19:56 GMT
#63
yeah the thing about zvz is youll often find your opponent doing the same damn build as your doing in a lot of the games. I usually use zerglings to buffer my banelings into the mineral line when i get the chance, because in zvz where both players often do the same thing its the little advantages that count. If you manage to, for instance, kill off 1/3rd of his drones with those initial baneling then you can run with it and pull the game through by just playing smart.
Ashera
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada202 Posts
November 30 2010 19:58 GMT
#64
Great strategies, I definitely like the Roach opening. Will use that in more ZvZ
Viva la Vida
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
December 01 2010 23:21 GMT
#65
Thanks for this

it makes me want to get some coaching with machine
Try another route paperboy.
Qtlisk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
December 02 2010 02:26 GMT
#66
I've been having trouble with 2 base muta when I'm going the 2 base roach build, seems like he gets too many mutas out before I am able to get enough hydras out, even with an infestor or two for support. Anyone else having this kind of problem?
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 07:20:30
December 02 2010 07:19 GMT
#67
On December 02 2010 11:26 Qtlisk wrote:
I've been having trouble with 2 base muta when I'm going the 2 base roach build, seems like he gets too many mutas out before I am able to get enough hydras out, even with an infestor or two for support. Anyone else having this kind of problem?


Where, in any of this, did you read about a 2 base roach build?

Are you talking about a regular FE?

If yes, you're probably skipping the lings, applying no pressure at all, and allowing him to tech freely while you do nothing.

This is the wrong way to FE.



Regardless, if he goes muta, he's cutting units. There's a timing you can exploit to kill him. You need to watch some of your replays (or post them here if you need someone to do it for you) and determine when you need to be attacking, and then make sure you hit that timing next time you run into a player going muta.
carrion
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom87 Posts
December 02 2010 18:11 GMT
#68
Ive been FEing in zvz and cant decide when to get gas. Is it better to delay gas and use spine crawlers and slowlings to defend vs any early pressure, or get gas for roaches/banelings/speed. Particularly ive found that the 2 base speedling build is hard to hold off without gas for banes. Is it dependent on scouting?
Qtlisk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
December 02 2010 20:09 GMT
#69
On December 02 2010 16:19 MrBitter wrote:


Where, in any of this, did you read about a 2 base roach build?

Are you talking about a regular FE?

If yes, you're probably skipping the lings, applying no pressure at all, and allowing him to tech freely while you do nothing.

This is the wrong way to FE.



Regardless, if he goes muta, he's cutting units. There's a timing you can exploit to kill him. You need to watch some of your replays (or post them here if you need someone to do it for you) and determine when you need to be attacking, and then make sure you hit that timing next time you run into a player going muta.


Yes, I was talking about the FE build, sorry if that was confusing. Thanks for the input, I'll try to remember to save some of my replays when this happens to me. Love the stream btw :D
nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
December 02 2010 22:21 GMT
#70
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 02 2010 22:48 GMT
#71
On December 03 2010 07:21 nicke10 wrote:
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.


Well, for starters, roach plays in general aren't very good at punishing fast expands.

If you scout a FE, or expect a FE (meaning hatch first) then don't go roach.

If he goes pool first, and then expands, and you're still struggling to punish it, the problem is in your execution.

nicke10
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden114 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 23:07:07
December 02 2010 23:06 GMT
#72
On December 03 2010 07:48 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 07:21 nicke10 wrote:
I'm having problem with the first build.

It feels like a roach play, with +1 and no lair with a fast expansion really beats this build. He simpy outproduces me in roachnumbers and if I spend my larva on lings to do a runby in to his mineral lines I fall back even further in economy.


Well, for starters, roach plays in general aren't very good at punishing fast expands.

If you scout a FE, or expect a FE (meaning hatch first) then don't go roach.

If he goes pool first, and then expands, and you're still struggling to punish it, the problem is in your execution.



The push comes around the time my lair finishes, then he has his expansion and more roaches.

He lays down the expansion and has equally my roach numbers so I can't push and punish.

Replay below.

[image loading]
"It's not that I'm dumb, I'm just Neural Parasited by a retarded Infestor." - Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Andre112
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada52 Posts
December 07 2010 02:38 GMT
#73
when you do FE and your opponent goes roach and expand, when should i get gas?
it seems like ppl always race for muta and if i get gas late, my lair is late, and I just die
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 07 2010 04:23 GMT
#74
On December 07 2010 11:38 Andre112 wrote:
when you do FE and your opponent goes roach and expand, when should i get gas?
it seems like ppl always race for muta and if i get gas late, my lair is late, and I just die


Same time as your pool... Just like if you were playing 1 base.
Andre112
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada52 Posts
December 07 2010 18:44 GMT
#75
under what situation would you gas at 40 food?
that's what machine said when he taught you the FE build.
Sanasante
Profile Joined March 2010
United States321 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 18:58:05
December 07 2010 18:55 GMT
#76
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light
Jahzaa
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany30 Posts
December 20 2010 23:17 GMT
#77
Vod offline??
Legalize StimPack
winedz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States92 Posts
December 21 2010 02:12 GMT
#78
On December 08 2010 03:55 Sanasante wrote:
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.


I feel that this is very risky, as it is punishable with a decent roach timing push. Thoughts?
zylog
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada943 Posts
December 21 2010 03:41 GMT
#79
On December 08 2010 03:55 Sanasante wrote:
Adjust your speedling build and you can transition. Try not putting a bane nest and adding an expansion at 21 supply. (Pull workers after 100 gas). This will allow you to go into the game with a faster expansion that is 100% defend able.

They cannot move into muta play with this opener either or they will die. Forces low eco roach or bane or roach/bane builds. If they try to expand behind you, you can overwhelm.


If they stay on 1 base ling/baneling and keep pressuring, won't you probably lose from having 300/350 minerals less spent on lings?
mikertrx
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands3 Posts
December 21 2010 05:17 GMT
#80
any1 knows where i can watch the video? cause its down
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 729
UpATreeSC 97
BRAT_OK 73
JuggernautJason24
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2588
EffOrt 766
Shuttle 701
Mini 664
Soulkey 360
ggaemo 187
actioN 105
firebathero 96
hero 28
Sharp 21
[ Show more ]
HiyA 19
Rock 16
IntoTheRainbow 15
sorry 13
Dota 2
420jenkins252
BananaSlamJamma166
Counter-Strike
fl0m8042
x6flipin761
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK8
Other Games
singsing3282
Day[9].tv3125
Grubby2679
FrodaN771
ceh9558
Beastyqt501
Lowko498
B2W.Neo338
C9.Mang0143
ArmadaUGS108
XaKoH 107
KnowMe104
Trikslyr49
Dewaltoss27
OptimusSC23
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream3654
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 32
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2547
• TFBlade867
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie561
• Shiphtur181
Other Games
• Day9tv3125
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 56m
CranKy Ducklings
15h 56m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
16h 56m
Cure vs SKillous
Big Brain Bouts
21h 56m
Maplez vs eGGz
Reynor vs Solar
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 16h
GSL
1d 17h
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
GSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-16
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.