• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:53
CEST 21:53
KST 04:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo15Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7405 users

[G] ZvZ - 3 different builds - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
SoftSoap
Profile Joined November 2010
United States170 Posts
November 29 2010 02:09 GMT
#21
On November 28 2010 20:09 Maicro wrote:
Can any of these fend off a 6 pool?


Maps such as steppes of war is crucial with 6 pools
Tasteless, "IdrA always pulls out on time."
OrcaMOrciM
Profile Joined August 2010
4 Posts
November 29 2010 02:26 GMT
#22
sweet, now if you could do the z v p and z v t vods too that would be awesome
Kelsin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States253 Posts
November 29 2010 03:01 GMT
#23
On November 29 2010 11:26 OrcaMOrciM wrote:
sweet, now if you could do the z v p and z v t vods too that would be awesome


Look through MrBitter's other VoD's on UStream. He has a PvT and PvP with Machine up there as well as some lessons with InControl. All excellent.
FluidTek
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia50 Posts
November 29 2010 03:25 GMT
#24
Thanks for this, ive been having problems with my ZvZ lately.
zergules
Profile Joined July 2010
United States55 Posts
November 29 2010 05:10 GMT
#25
Thanks so much for posting this! I've been looking for some ZvZ builds. I really suck at that match-up, and it seems like 80% of my matches lately have been ZvZ.

cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 06:20:03
November 29 2010 05:48 GMT
#26
This is wonderful. I've always just done 15hatch 14pool on the maps that are permissible, and then just baneling speedling all in on the other maps. This gives me a better idea of what to look for and techniques in micro. *thumbs up*

EDIT: It seems that 15hatch vs. 15hatch is the most complicated BO MU which is no surprise. I'm probably gonna do a lot of practice in this area.

Are there replays of these available? I'm interested to see Machine's POV for this.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
AmaZing
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Nepal299 Posts
November 29 2010 06:29 GMT
#27
On November 28 2010 20:32 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2010 20:09 Maicro wrote:
Can any of these fend off a 6 pool?


anyone that has good drone micro can fend off a 6 pool


That means a very few people at dream hack xD
ACTION JESUS!!

but yea ty for the post. I personally freestyle like a noob when i spawn a zvz, i guess its time to make an effort to learn it
ಠ_ಠ
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
November 29 2010 06:31 GMT
#28
Awesome builds, thanks for writing them out
any chance you want to do that for ZvT and ZvP?
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 09:41:51
November 29 2010 09:40 GMT
#29
Hmm I haven't even thought about that, because I haven't seen his ZvT and ZvP castings. I'm not having any trouble with ZvT and ZvP right now, but I'm not sure, maybe I will, but at first I gotta watch those VoDs. I'll definitely think about it.

Btw, there already is a real great guide about ZvP. GSL time now..
mKw
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark33 Posts
November 29 2010 09:56 GMT
#30
Thanks for the write up. i had a vague idea about these 3 builds are viable builds in ZvZ, and as it was said in another Z strategy thread its all about scouting what they are gonna do of those 3, cause as soon as u do u can chose to mirror and just play better or change to something which deals with it very well.

Example: i played a ZvZ some1 went mass roaches on one base. scouted it as i started speed and just expanded and mass speedlings and raped. If hed gone baneling then id have been fucked but then u just gotta go roaches :D great rock paper scissors match up tbh until some1 get mutas hehe.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 10:03:50
November 29 2010 09:58 GMT
#31
o.O

Kudos for take'n the time to write this down. Glad peeps are learning from these VODs. Be sure to tune in for iNcontroL Tuesday night!



I'm so shameless with my plugs.

On November 29 2010 14:48 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Are there replays of these available? I'm interested to see Machine's POV for this.


I very intentionally did not save any of the Machine reps from these sessions. He's already more or less told us exactly how we should approach each matchup... Piling reps on top of that, in my opinion, is a little bit more than I think we're entitled to.

All the info we need (and much more) is in the VODs.
Skully_eu
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands6 Posts
November 29 2010 13:26 GMT
#32
I'm definatly going to practise these builds when I get home tonight. I think atm I loose 75% of my ZvZ matches, becouse I just do a kinda freestyle build in ZvZ and have no real plan actually.
We require more minerals
kko
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7 Posts
November 29 2010 13:51 GMT
#33
I saw the ZvZ / ZvP Coaching and i got a question : how can i switch the Camera Position (during the Larva Inject from the Queens) so fast?
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
November 29 2010 13:57 GMT
#34
I don't know exactly what you mean, but I guess you're talking about hotkey-ing your queens. I personally use the hotkeys 5-8 for my queens, you know, 55,v,click; 66,v,click etc.. There's really no magic behind it.
teh_longinator
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada725 Posts
November 29 2010 14:01 GMT
#35
On November 29 2010 22:26 Skully_eu wrote:
I'm definatly going to practise these builds when I get home tonight. I think atm I loose 75% of my ZvZ matches, becouse I just do a kinda freestyle build in ZvZ and have no real plan actually.


I'd love to be able to go home and work on these three builds, but I don't get to play until at least Wednesday -_-... I hate school!

On an actual note, this is an awesome post, and a great deal of help to us Zergs who have problems actually winning in a ZvZ... as it stands, I either use Dimaga's Mass-ling build, or just Mass Roach and hope for the best. I haven't won a game in sooooo long
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 14:03:37
November 29 2010 14:02 GMT
#36
On November 28 2010 22:02 ktimekiller wrote:
I certainly like the roach and bling, but the expand confuses me

How do you survive with 0 lings with 15 hatch 15 pool until 20+ food? any 12-14 pool that pops with 6 lings at once will likely insta kill you

By scouting his base (so that you know you need to not spend larva on drones while your pool is finishing) + kiting the lings until yours are out. You have more larva than he does, so once your pool is done (14 pool vs 14 hatch, your pool will finish shortly after he arrives at your base.) , he can't outproduce you on lings, and you can afford to lose a few drones in pushing him out.
pheno
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany33 Posts
November 29 2010 14:09 GMT
#37
A better or equal player will always punish a fast expanding opponent in a ZvZ, just to have it mentioned. And fending off 6 pools in a ZvZ shouldn't be a problem from about 1000+ Platinum on. Nevertheless, the builds are solid (but standard) and the explanation is pretty good.
슬레이어현상 -.-
AnodyneSea
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Jamaica757 Posts
November 29 2010 14:43 GMT
#38
Thanks for this, the video was posted before but I forgot to watch it
Lost within the hope of freedom, not for control but in the light of our cause
Floydian
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom374 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 15:31:03
November 29 2010 15:29 GMT
#39
Is the video not loading for anyone else? It just loads forever

Thanks a lot for this post, I always sigh when I get another z on my loading screen, as it's pretty much a guaranteed loss for me. I really just don't seem to get it.
Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
November 29 2010 15:52 GMT
#40
On November 28 2010 21:38 Sclol wrote:
i play sling only with a more or less fast +1 and expand at ~20 and i'm doing really well... i can fend off ling bling and roach and roach baneling


I haven't lost a single game doing that =P. Like literally you can just make nothing but slings after 2 - 3 drones and overwhelm you opponent because they think you're going for a long macro game. And for the bastards that do a big roach rush, just putting down some spinecrawlers leaves em to scratch their asses.

Either that or make roaches too, and don't stop making roaches. Because people just love to send an endless stream of units to your base hoping to break you because naturally when you go to expand you want to make drones. It seriously becomes a 1 saturated base vs 1 saturate base + auxiliary hatch war, so dumb =_=. But it feels good when you can see your opponent getting flustered and pulling back to set up his own hatch, and just losing the game.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 3
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
ZZZero.O216
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 662
BRAT_OK 74
Nathanias 52
Ketroc 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15012
ZZZero.O 216
ggaemo 213
firebathero 143
NaDa 4
League of Legends
Trikslyr66
Counter-Strike
fl0m11979
tarik_tv9342
summit1g9123
byalli663
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor244
Other Games
Grubby3703
FrodaN1292
PiGStarcraft325
DeMusliM128
minikerr6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1194
EGCTV1070
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 74
• Hupsaiya 54
• musti20045 23
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 2271
• Shiphtur161
Other Games
• imaqtpie799
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 8m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
15h 8m
GSL
16h 8m
IPSL
20h 8m
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
21h 8m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
23h 8m
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 4h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.