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[D]Terran version of "4gating your way to diamond" - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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ace246
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 11:25:23
November 24 2010 11:22 GMT
#21
For those of you guys calling me a noob and telling me to just improve my skills, im already a diamond at SEA server. I just want to get to diamond in NA server ASAP, but i dont want to play up to late game everytime in ladder just to get to diamond again.

And for those of you who post build orders, please tell me the specific details (e.g 10 depot, 12 rax...). If you already posted a build order but didn't put in the specific details, edit your post.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 11:59:59
November 24 2010 11:47 GMT
#22
5-6 rax no gas marine rush. It is very tricky, the basic bo is very close to 1 rax FE, so you never know if there are multiple raxes coming up in the main or a cc. I think it is even better than 4gate. There was a thread here how someone made 1 rank diamond with this build in every MU.
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 11:50:29
November 24 2010 11:49 GMT
#23
On November 24 2010 18:45 beef42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 18:36 cmp wrote:
There is no terran build as effective and easy to play as 4 gate. If all you care about is getting diamond why don't you just play protoss? The race lends itself very well to bad play as well so if something does go wrong it's much easier to deal with. Getting dropped? No problem, since your macro is terrible you'll have plenty of money to warp in units to deal with it exactly where they need to be. Forgot to macro while fighting? No problem, warp in reinforcements at a forward pylon. You can get away with playing really really badly and still make it seem like you know what you're doing.


What? 3 rax rauder stim rush ring a bell? The hardest thing here is making sure your army is in position to attack when stim finishes! Timing for beginners!


3 rax isn't all in where as 4 gate is, right? Never used 3 rax, you are way behind in tech.
Papacy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States6 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 11:55:53
November 24 2010 11:54 GMT
#24
I'm pretty sure 3 rax can only get you to platinum, maybe. 3 rax tends to get shut down easily at higher levels, especially if scouted.

Early, early marine rushes would work, though.
TALegion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 12:12:11
November 24 2010 12:11 GMT
#25
On November 24 2010 17:59 Tianx wrote:
Alternatively pull a Foxer and 2-rax SCV rush every game.

Pro: Works at the highest level, too.
Con: Takes actually micro.

If he had micro that good, he wouldn't be asking for a strat to carry him to diamond.

On November 24 2010 17:57 freetgy wrote:
how about learning to play the game?

My thoughts exactly.
A person willing to die for a cause is a hero. A person willing to kill for a cause is a madman
futility
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Japan134 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 12:21:41
November 24 2010 12:16 GMT
#26
On November 24 2010 18:41 Inori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 18:36 cmp wrote:
There is no terran build as effective and easy to play as 4 gate. If all you care about is getting diamond why don't you just play protoss? The race lends itself very well to bad play as well so if something does go wrong it's much easier to deal with. Getting dropped? No problem, since your macro is terrible you'll have plenty of money to warp in units to deal with it exactly where they need to be. Forgot to macro while fighting? No problem, warp in reinforcements at a forward pylon. You can get away with playing really really badly and still make it seem like you know what you're doing.

As a P player that got himself into mid diamond with T within trial account time period (granted, it was back when bonus pool wasn't this stupidly high), I strongly disagree. Any Bo that involves M & M is much easier to execute than proper 4gate.
In fact I bet you can just n-rax marine all-in every game up to 2000+.


You can't, you can't even 3 rax to diamond. Like the person above me said, 3 rax is too easy to shut down. It's not an all in and by design isn't meant to win the game immediately, it just denies an early expo from protoss then requires you to transition into something that can actually win the game. Against any protoss platinum+ you will never push up their ramp and as soon as colossi pop you're dead if you don't know what you're doing. Against zerg you just auto lose to 14 hatch on any map with a rush distance longer than Steppes of War. Terran gets a lot of grief for being mindless to play but try 4 gating as toss then try 3 raxing against a diamond player and tell me which works better. I'm not trying to tell you one is easier to play WELL than the other, I'm just saying at a very minimum level of competency you will fare better as protoss because the way the mechanics of the race work. The race is a lot more forgiving at low levels of play. This apparently does not apply to the OP anyway, though it probably applies to me.

Also the game is still new and evolving rapidly. A few months ago you could virtually roll your face across the keyboard and end up in diamond, but the overall skill level has increased dramatically since then as would be expected. Be careful with anecdotal evidence.

is your macro bad? just drop mules.. and make planetary


Mules don't help at all if your macro is bad, they just let you bank more minerals that you probably won't spend. And you realize making planetary cuts down on the amount of mules you can even use anyway right?
Coolcatqt
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom36 Posts
November 24 2010 12:36 GMT
#27
On November 24 2010 18:05 beef42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 18:03 DennyR wrote:
You should srsly learn to play the game from the bottom. No offence, but I really think poeple should get away from playing 4Gate and 3Rax.You learn nothing using those and when you reach diamond you still have to learn the game, because you will lose every game when you reach a certain point.
What are you going to do then? Quit playing?


So learn to macro, learn to expand, learn the basics of playing Starcraft and reach diamond with real skill.


Bollocks.

Korean players practice the same build over and over again, and they're pretty good, so why can't we?

not the same thing, cheesing every game isn't learning the game
Cute as a button :]
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
November 24 2010 12:47 GMT
#28
To the OP: I did the same thing as you (was diamond SEA, and got to diamond in NA). My advice is to play your strongest build. This way, you'll maximise your win % and thus get into diamond faster. I reached there under 30 games.
Gaffer
Profile Joined September 2010
United States6 Posts
November 24 2010 12:54 GMT
#29
On November 24 2010 20:47 Cheerio wrote:
There was a thread here how someone made 1 rank diamond with this build in every MU.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=156256
illumn
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand437 Posts
November 24 2010 13:10 GMT
#30
On November 24 2010 18:36 cmp wrote:
There is no terran build as effective and easy to play as 4 gate. If all you care about is getting diamond why don't you just play protoss? The race lends itself very well to bad play as well so if something does go wrong it's much easier to deal with. Getting dropped? No problem, since your macro is terrible you'll have plenty of money to warp in units to deal with it exactly where they need to be. Forgot to macro while fighting? No problem, warp in reinforcements at a forward pylon. You can get away with playing really really badly and still make it seem like you know what you're doing.


I think you are heavily biased. MM and its transitions are very simple to play. To say you cannot reach diamond playing three rax is absurd. Three rax against a protoss will provide you with similar amounts of autowins as 4gate up to a certain skill level which is well above the diamond threshhold.

At the same time, while MULEs do not compensate as much for lack of unit production, it compensate for a lack of worker production, which is also an aspect of macro.
Santi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Colombia466 Posts
November 24 2010 13:25 GMT
#31
same situation as you, i got to diamond in NA by pure macro play in less than 20 games. No need to cheese, but be prepared for NA cheese. They love it.
Dominator1370
Profile Joined November 2010
United States111 Posts
November 24 2010 13:27 GMT
#32
I'm actually quite confused... If you're a Diamond level player on another server, you obviously have at least A build you use that got you there. Shouldn't that one work...? Just because it may have taken you a decent amount of time to get to that point the first time doesn't mean it will again. If you haven't placed yet, you should be able to get there VERY quickly. If you have, well, the system seems to adapt pretty quickly. You can just play standard, roll all your opponents, and get promoted. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you're better off playing standard: you're less likely to lose against a player who doesn't just outplay you.
OriginalBeast
Profile Joined September 2010
United States709 Posts
November 24 2010 13:32 GMT
#33
DTs :D

haha, jk. any build your good at practice 1 mother fing build and learn it well.

obviously saying DTs is a joke, learn humor
More gg, more skill.
ace246
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia360 Posts
November 24 2010 13:35 GMT
#34
On November 24 2010 22:27 Dominator1370 wrote:
I'm actually quite confused... If you're a Diamond level player on another server, you obviously have at least A build you use that got you there. Shouldn't that one work...? Just because it may have taken you a decent amount of time to get to that point the first time doesn't mean it will again. If you haven't placed yet, you should be able to get there VERY quickly. If you have, well, the system seems to adapt pretty quickly. You can just play standard, roll all your opponents, and get promoted. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you're better off playing standard: you're less likely to lose against a player who doesn't just outplay you.


Let me fill you in on my current situation. I want to play diamond in NA server because i am diamond in SEA server and i know im diamond material, i always played straight up macro in SEA but i want a shortcut to diamond in NA because i don't wanna deal with the people below diamond. All my build orders are for straight up macro like 1/1/1, 1rax FE,2 rax FE. Playing straight up macro to diamond takes hella long time. So i want to learn some cheesy, all-in, rush, agressive, any "finish-the-game-by- early/midgame" build orders.
illumn
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand437 Posts
November 24 2010 13:44 GMT
#35
Actually, don't lose any games and you'll be playing diamond players in 8-9 games. You don't have to be in diamond to be playing diamond players.
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
November 24 2010 13:49 GMT
#36
On November 24 2010 18:47 Brad` wrote:
3 rax, 2 tech lab 1 reactor stim push should get you to atleast 2100 diamond.


Nope I did that when I was still Terran and it stopped working at around 1000 diamond back then which should be around 1.3-1.5k atm.

2100 will easily scout it.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
Hurkyl
Profile Joined October 2010
304 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 14:38:10
November 24 2010 14:34 GMT
#37
On November 24 2010 21:36 Coolcatqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 18:05 beef42 wrote:
On November 24 2010 18:03 DennyR wrote:
You should srsly learn to play the game from the bottom. No offence, but I really think poeple should get away from playing 4Gate and 3Rax.You learn nothing using those and when you reach diamond you still have to learn the game, because you will lose every game when you reach a certain point.
What are you going to do then? Quit playing?


So learn to macro, learn to expand, learn the basics of playing Starcraft and reach diamond with real skill.


Bollocks.

Korean players practice the same build over and over again, and they're pretty good, so why can't we?

not the same thing, cheesing every game isn't learning the game

While I would normally agree with you, you seem to be using "cheese" in this strange way that people seem to be using these days.

Did you know that, once upon a time, builds that could exert pressure on your opponent relatively early were normal, and any sort of early tech or fast expansion build was considered to be gimmicky, rather than sound play?

Four gate and three rax are* strong enough threats that the opponent cannot who puts up adequate defenses cannot also gain a large advantage through macro/tech, and so you are still in a good position against an opponent who can resist the pressure as long as you play well.

*: Or, at least, seem to be
bobcat
Profile Joined May 2010
United States488 Posts
November 24 2010 14:36 GMT
#38
3 rax.

And it will get you way farther than 4 gate will get a protoss player.
"I just want to see bobcat wrist deep in someone's mother's anus" 165 votes
IcyPringle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada210 Posts
November 24 2010 14:37 GMT
#39
3rax into 5rax expand is the most devisating build I have every seen done against a Protoss doing anything but gate robo first.
SC2: IcyPringle.137 - Terran
bobcat
Profile Joined May 2010
United States488 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 15:23:12
November 24 2010 15:15 GMT
#40
On November 24 2010 21:16 cmp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 18:41 Inori wrote:
On November 24 2010 18:36 cmp wrote:
There is no terran build as effective and easy to play as 4 gate. If all you care about is getting diamond why don't you just play protoss? The race lends itself very well to bad play as well so if something does go wrong it's much easier to deal with. Getting dropped? No problem, since your macro is terrible you'll have plenty of money to warp in units to deal with it exactly where they need to be. Forgot to macro while fighting? No problem, warp in reinforcements at a forward pylon. You can get away with playing really really badly and still make it seem like you know what you're doing.

As a P player that got himself into mid diamond with T within trial account time period (granted, it was back when bonus pool wasn't this stupidly high), I strongly disagree. Any Bo that involves M & M is much easier to execute than proper 4gate.
In fact I bet you can just n-rax marine all-in every game up to 2000+.


You can't, you can't even 3 rax to diamond. Like the person above me said, 3 rax is too easy to shut down. It's not an all in and by design isn't meant to win the game immediately, it just denies an early expo from protoss then requires you to transition into something that can actually win the game. Against any protoss platinum+ you will never push up their ramp and as soon as colossi pop you're dead if you don't know what you're doing. Against zerg you just auto lose to 14 hatch on any map with a rush distance longer than Steppes of War. Terran gets a lot of grief for being mindless to play but try 4 gating as toss then try 3 raxing against a diamond player and tell me which works better. I'm not trying to tell you one is easier to play WELL than the other, I'm just saying at a very minimum level of competency you will fare better as protoss because the way the mechanics of the race work. The race is a lot more forgiving at low levels of play. This apparently does not apply to the OP anyway, though it probably applies to me.

Also the game is still new and evolving rapidly. A few months ago you could virtually roll your face across the keyboard and end up in diamond, but the overall skill level has increased dramatically since then as would be expected. Be careful with anecdotal evidence.

Show nested quote +
is your macro bad? just drop mules.. and make planetary


Mules don't help at all if your macro is bad, they just let you bank more minerals that you probably won't spend. And you realize making planetary cuts down on the amount of mules you can even use anyway right?


Yes at the bronze to gold levels of play, I fully agree that 4 gate is more forgiving of a very bad player. However, the OP asked about an easy way to get into diamond quickly. I'm assuming from this that he is a competent player who can macro. 4 gate may be more forgiving of a bad player, but 3 rax is more forgiving of an intermediate player. You can queue up units without having to constantly keep an eye on your warp gate cooldowns to make sure you are using your resources/time effectively. Arguing which race is easier for bad players is pointless. Am I arguing that 4 gate is hard? No, it's easy as shit.

The point is that as a terran, you have to put considerably less thought into your unit composition, formation, and in general what your opponent is making. You can open 3 rax with 2 tech labs and a reactor and pump half and half marines and marauders and you will beat most openers/armies up into diamond league.

If you put a good amount of thought into what units you make, scouting your opponents composition, and keeping your marauders in the front, watching out for banelings and FF's, and stim kiting, you can get into a very high level of diamond.

You can literally win mid-diamond games with MMM alone. Provided you expand appropriately and macro correctly you will get very far off of this build.



EDIT: also, if you were a diamond on SEA why are you asking about how to get into diamond quickly. You should be able (if you deserve your diamond rating) to completely shut down your platinum and lower opponents in 10 minutes.
"I just want to see bobcat wrist deep in someone's mother's anus" 165 votes
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