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[D] 1.1.2 Void Ray changes (with poll) - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
October 15 2010 08:12 GMT
#141
Not a cost effecitve unit.... was not balanced before this patch... is not balanced after this patch. I think reapers and void rays both need the desert oasis treatment (remove them). VRs dont even perform vs thors all that well post patch esp. given range requirements the fact that thors are supported by cheap units that counter pretty bad. These units are really really bad now. If they lowered the cost a bit to bring it in line with the units new level of power I think it might be okay, but at 250/150 its hard to justifiy building one. It loses miserably to units mixed into every standard army in every MU.
gm.tOSS
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany898 Posts
October 15 2010 08:13 GMT
#142
The lonely carrier must be so happy.
HuK HuK HuK | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | There is death in the hane.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
October 15 2010 08:14 GMT
#143
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2010 08:31 whoopadeedoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 08:27 devolore wrote:
Where's the "Void Rays are significantly stronger now" option?

Yeah, on paper, if you built a proxy pylon or something and used it to charge your VR's up or your opponent was just completely unprepared you could get in and do some serious damage. But as soon as he scouted it or fought off the first wave of VR's they were basically useless for the rest of the game; you could build them, but he'd just chase them off before you did any real damage, all while massing up an army that you can't keep up with. So Protoss would build 1-2 void rays and then stop entirely.

Now you can actually do something resembling damage with them using some hit and run tactics. They don't have to be charged up to start hurting. They don't hurt as much fully charged as they used to, sure, but they did such a ridiculous amount of damage before that that isn't really saying much. There are plenty of units that still do less damage than a charged Void Ray.

To put some math behind it, say you sneak in and attack a Barracks or something. It takes 8 seconds "normal" time for a Void Ray to charge. In the old model, you'd do 5 damage per second (the Void Ray has an attack speed of 1) for 8 seconds, and then 25 damage from then on. So if it takes your opponent 12 seconds to move his units over, you did a total of (5x8) + (25x4) = 140 damage.

Under the new model, you do 10 damage for 8 seconds, followed by 16. So again, if it takes 12 seconds for your opponent to move his units over, you do a total of (10x8) + (16x4) = 144 damage. So we can assume that, for any attack that would have been 12 seconds or shorter before (ie: most harass), this was actually a buff.

(Obviously that's if you're playing on normal speed; it's something like 5.5 seconds for it to charge on Faster, putting the crossover point somewhere around 9 seconds in a real game)

I don't know about anyone else, but the problem I've always had with Void Rays was that they're amazing when you can get them to charge, but completely worthless until they do. It's also very tough to get them to actually charge in a lot of situations. So although they're no longer MONSTER DPS once fully charged, they're still pretty good DPS, and they're not worthless until that point.

I dunno, I think they're a lot more actually usable with this change.


I'm pretty sure VRs only take 6 seconds of game time to charge. You aren't going to convince me the level 2 nerf is offset by +1 (+4 armor) buff in level 1. The only two things it helps kill appreciably better are roaches and marauders, and when do you build a 250/150 air unit to deal with those?

head to head though an uncharged void ray takes 9 seconds on "faster" gameplay to kill 1 roach. 9 seconds... and high 7 low 8s for a marauder. Its worthless... most large battles dont last much more than that.
Ssoulle
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom149 Posts
October 15 2010 08:27 GMT
#144
It was an interesting unit, both to use and watch, and now its completely ruined. It was never about the first level of charge, even if it did almost no damage it would be fine. So buffing that has made them worse if anything because they now do more damage when being pre charged. They can no longer do great DPS to buildings or for example Vikings. Carrier isn't viable either its just too expensive and time consuming to build.

Imo, What they should have done was made it +8 +17 to armoured. Took the damage away from normal and put it back on Armoured, so it isn't as effective against Hydralisks and Marines anymore but still as good at killing buildings and big armoured units like it supposed too.
O.o
NotAlone
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia4 Posts
October 15 2010 08:31 GMT
#145
On October 15 2010 12:24 Yaotzin wrote:
Huh? Level one is pure buff.


No one uses uncharged voids so the level 1 buff is pretty useless.. 36% reduction in level 2 is too much.

The nerf is ridiculous, even the speed upgrade like someone said. Having needed to be built from a fleet beacon the 37% reduction is over the top.

Nice numbers, 36% and 37% lol.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 10:50:54
October 15 2010 08:41 GMT
#146
I don't really understand the point of void rays now, except for fighting BCs (recently nerfed themselves and out of fashion currently). In PvP stalkers totally answer them now, the only thing that let them do stuff in PvP was that if they got charged they could rip through stalkers. In PvZ do they do anything? Queens are more effective than before against them (VRs gained 1 dmg when uncharged and lost 2 dmg when charged).

They didn't even necessarily get better against marines or banshees or hydras or anything when not precharged. Basically they are horrible wastes of a ton of resources.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
Zaraphiston
Profile Joined September 2010
United States26 Posts
October 15 2010 08:55 GMT
#147
I have to agree here with the majority. The VR's nerf-buff only could serve against small amounts of cheap units; as soon anything gets massed, forget it. Better spend your resources in spamming pylons before the enemy arrives waiting for Blizzard to do something intelligent.
wort wort wort
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
October 15 2010 08:55 GMT
#148
On October 15 2010 17:13 gm.tOSS wrote:
The lonely carrier must be so happy.

Carriers are awesome, the only problem is it's hard to tech to Fleet Beacon without getting some other tech to not die, as gateway units need support.

I don't like this change. VRs are a major investment and a capable support unit, which just got neutered. It's fine to reduce the damage so that 1 VR doesn't win the game, but tweak the cost too.
bigjenk
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1543 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 09:08:37
October 15 2010 09:07 GMT
#149
On October 15 2010 06:17 Drakan wrote:
LoL @ the complain.
Did you read well ?
now when uncharged they deal 10dmg to armored units instead of 5.

and when charged they were absolutely imbalanced killing vikings at sight before being able to make 2 shots, or instantly killing marines.

They will be very usefull in battles instead of only using the when they are in masses or to make sneak attacks/cheese when charged.

With speed they can avoid being killed by marines, and kill armored units.



Damn those units that are much slower and have 3 less range killing all my vikings that cost half of a voidray.
Ignore my opinions I am bad
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
October 15 2010 09:12 GMT
#150
I find it cute how all the terrans here "think" that void rays will be more useful on the open field...

yeah you sure would love us using void rays on the open field vs MMM wouldn't you
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
bigjenk
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1543 Posts
October 15 2010 09:22 GMT
#151
I think it is funny how terran are complaing about vr's being imba but in order for them to work you basically have to catch terran by surprise and get them charged which basically means a failure in scouting on their part, as where terran basically dictates that there must be an early robo and an observer out due to the fact that there terran is always 2 minutes away from cloaked banshees as soon as a starport is out.
Ignore my opinions I am bad
Drazzzt
Profile Joined September 2002
Germany999 Posts
October 15 2010 10:00 GMT
#152
i think the changes were mainly done due to 2on2 / 3on3 issues...
Be Nice, Be Fair, Be Mannered.
SwampZero
Profile Joined September 2010
Greece350 Posts
October 15 2010 10:02 GMT
#153
Why are all of you believing the idiots that say 1 Queen beats a void ray


Are you retarded? Go and try it, a void ray still beats the shit out of a queen
apexplosive
Profile Joined August 2010
52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 10:09:44
October 15 2010 10:08 GMT
#154
The Voidray would beat the queen even more so since it does 1 extra damage.
Its pretty significant because the first 2 levels of the voidray do the same damage, and the third level get a slight nerf.
Play Tree tag with me on NA server
SwampZero
Profile Joined September 2010
Greece350 Posts
October 15 2010 10:09 GMT
#155
Yeah. But someone said it doesn't at around page 4 and then everyone takes it for granted.
apexplosive
Profile Joined August 2010
52 Posts
October 15 2010 10:13 GMT
#156
I really dont understand where you guys are coming from. The void ray is doing what its designed to do. Killing armoured Units. Now its not a gimmicky unit used for sneaking into bases and killing buildings ALTHOUGH it can still do this since now it deals even MORE damage precharged(level1/2) against buildings. It can also support a regular army, and kill thors(which are made viable patch 1.1.2) and bcs.
Play Tree tag with me on NA server
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4461 Posts
October 15 2010 10:44 GMT
#157
On October 15 2010 19:13 apexplosive wrote:
I really dont understand where you guys are coming from. The void ray is doing what its designed to do. Killing armoured Units. Now its not a gimmicky unit used for sneaking into bases and killing buildings ALTHOUGH it can still do this since now it deals even MORE damage precharged(level1/2) against buildings. It can also support a regular army, and kill thors(which are made viable patch 1.1.2) and bcs.

no-one uses voids for their precharge
how often does it have to be said??
compare the new VR to the banshee
150/100 banshee - can cloak , actually kills buildings faster than VR now

VR 250/150 - no cloak , nerfed speed upgrade , very mediocre against air units
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Celadan
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway471 Posts
October 15 2010 10:49 GMT
#158
I think VR should get longer range so it could serve its purpose of Anti-Armor unit.
i think blizzard should redesign VRs into become support units instead of light standalone sneak attack units.

so in a way i agree with apexplosive but VRs are not a good Anti-Armor support unit as the immortal.
The only thing the VR does better is the ability to kill Air.(support unit-wise)

well they are not a good option anymore and i will have to find another way to punish Zergs FE.(that was it main role pre-patch)
спеціальна Тактика
Cent353
Profile Joined October 2010
Ireland2 Posts
October 15 2010 10:59 GMT
#159
HI, first post and I'm a bit of a newb. I think the changes were mainly about balance in the lower divisions. I think I saw something recently where TvP was pretty level in Diamond but toss was 5or more 5% in Bronze/Silver. You'd imagine this might have a little to do with Terran players often being people coming directly in from the campaign and not being used to these types of harass and in TvZ Terran has (had?) most of the early harass.


sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 11:07:03
October 15 2010 11:04 GMT
#160
blizz really screwed up with the void ray-unit....which is especially bad because it seems like they tried hard to implement a cool new unit that has a completely new mechanic - and it was a utter failure

their range was nerfed because their damage was too high; now their damage was nerfed, shouldn't they get their range back?

very sad to see that the "old" units from BW (still) work fine, while the "new" ones cause so much trouble; hopefully they remove the void ray at some point (protoss expansion?) and give protoss a useful air unit that serves its purpose either as strong anti-ground or as strong anti-air(armored); this patch is like they removed the void ray from the game - I couldn't think of one situation except mass-ultras+broodlords where I would ever want to get them; also the speed-upgrade was rarely used on pro-level......no idea what this is all about, all the ppl here claming the speed-nerf is fine when nobody ever got it anyways
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
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