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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
I believe they do almost double damage compared to BW, no? Not that such comparisons mean anything. Against any type of unit with high armor like Ultras and BCs, carriers are abysmal due to their 5 x2 damage. Make the damage 10 flat for each interceptor and I'll use carriers. Get upgrades too? It does seem like much of the "carriers suck" feeling stems from trying to fight +3 attack units with 0/0/0 carriers and suchlike. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
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PositiveZero
United States39 Posts
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NyuNyu
Canada146 Posts
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:08 Yaotzin wrote: Vikings don't counter carriers. I believe they do almost double damage compared to BW, no? Not that such comparisons mean anything. they're a pretty good counter. 10 vikings can focus fire a single carrier within a group barely before the first wave of interceptors (did you know that they actually fire in two waves now, which sucks even more?) hits them. carrier range is 8. viking range is 9. if the 5-ish group of carriers (which would be a fairly realistic scenario in a pvt late game, if the p was stupid enough to use them) don't focus fire, no vikings get killed before they can start attacking the second one. and of course, focus firing carriers is not efficient on anything that are not buildings or other massive air units due to overkill, wasting that godly DPS. not like carriers can outrun the vikings, nor can the carriers attack while moving. (they can move while the interceptors are out, but only until 14 range) only way i've managed to use them effectively is if you managed to keep them hidden somewhere and then attacking a base while the army is somewhere else. hopefully you attack the base with the starports. | ||
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prochobo
United States232 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:08 Yaotzin wrote: Vikings don't counter carriers. I believe they do almost double damage compared to BW, no? Not that such comparisons mean anything. Get upgrades too? It does seem like much of the "carriers suck" feeling stems from trying to fight +3 attack units with 0/0/0 carriers and suchlike. People don't upgrade air until they actually have air units. Are you suggesting that I sacrifice ground upgrades or units for air upgrades in order to strengthen a unit I won't use till late game? If my opponent and I were about even and pop out Tier 3 units at the same time with all things being equal, the higher armored units are very resilient to carriers upgrades or no upgrades. | ||
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:08 Yaotzin wrote: Vikings don't counter carriers. I believe they do almost double damage compared to BW, no? Not that such comparisons mean anything. Get upgrades too? It does seem like much of the "carriers suck" feeling stems from trying to fight +3 attack units with 0/0/0 carriers and suchlike. the problem with that line of thinking is that noone prepares air upgrades for a unit 99% of the time is gotten reactively in order to break open a turtling terran. you'd never get +3/+3 in time to counter the raping that marines + vikings are doing to your interceptors and carriers | ||
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megagoten
318 Posts
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tibberous
United States45 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:19 prochobo wrote: People don't upgrade air until they actually have air units. I do  I'll get +1 air attack if I even think the game might go late. That way if I end up building carriers they won't completely suck (or phoenixes against zerg) | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
i think void rays might actually be pretty effective still against armored units, whoever thought they were fine before never played team games, which is prolly the main reason why they were nerfed also, their upgraded speed used to be downright ridiculous void rays will still be massable in team games, but not uncounterable once charged. as for 1on1s, they are less of a cheesy midgame allin unit, and more of a tactical unit forcing different unit composition on your opponent (forcing z away from roach, which will be rly strong now, forcing terr to make something else than marauders | ||
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Delarchon
Finland132 Posts
2 queen / hatch and they are fine. Void ray was kinda like the reason why that doesn't happen or atleast you would be able to make it stop at some point. How are you supposed to defend expos from mass roach? With range 4 they can kill cannons, shoot over forcefields and kiting with stalkers will be harder. It's true that void rays weren't seen so often in games but it doesn't mean that they didn't have any purpose. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:57 Delarchon wrote: How are you supposed to defend expos from mass roach? With range 4 they can kill cannons, shoot over forcefields and kiting with stalkers will be harder. . Void Rays =] | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:19 zeehar wrote: they're a pretty good counter. 10 vikings can focus fire a single carrier within a group barely before the first wave of interceptors (did you know that they actually fire in two waves now, which sucks even more?) hits them. No they don't. Are you talking pre-upgrade or something? If so that's kinda irrelevent.. carrier range is 8. viking range is 9. if the 5-ish group of carriers (which would be a fairly realistic scenario in a pvt late game, if the p was stupid enough to use them) don't focus fire, no vikings get killed before they can start attacking the second one. and of course, focus firing carriers is not efficient on anything that are not buildings or other massive air units due to overkill, wasting that godly DPS. No, the first wave + the stalkers sitting underneath them will kill your vikings quite easily. It's the same situation as with colossi vs vikings, with the difference being the carriers will demolish the vikings if you let them shoot even once, whereas colossi can't shoot back. People don't upgrade air until they actually have air units. Are you suggesting that I sacrifice ground upgrades or units for air upgrades in order to strengthen a unit I won't use till late game? No, but you can get a bunch of upgrades (yay chrono spam ^_^) out while making your first couple carrier batches. Could also get a couple upgrades while opening phoenix, they're not overly expensive, especially weapon (most important for carriers ofc). Or hell, yeah, just get a couple weapon upgrades while you drop the stargates or something. It's like 250/250, not a big deal later on. | ||
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tournamentnow
Australia111 Posts
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
Edit: wait, VRs don't even have armor anymore? | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
On October 15 2010 11:16 tournamentnow wrote: It's an overall buff to the void ray in all situations even its good as part of your army. It does double DPS vs armored now while uncharged is more than enough to compensate for the 40% nerf to charged dmg vs armored. Its insane now in PVP. I can't recall many instances where I engaged AA units without being charged. It was already a questionable risk to attack 3 stalkers with the old charged damage ... how in the world is it better with 40% less damage? The only thing that this patch helps is VRs sniping marauders or roaches running around without AA support, or a single stalker lost on the map. | ||
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starcraft2leverage
United States207 Posts
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lqd
United States108 Posts
a 34% reduction in charged damage is a bit too much, considering that the change to level 1 is both a buff and a nerf | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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