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So being the mischievous fellow that I am I have come to delight in trying to hide my first rax... in my base. I follow up with building a bunker in the opponents base sometimes if I'm there early enough to get it up. Then I just salvage it. This silly technique is humorous, but also I feel like it has several inherent advantages.
That first moment when someone says, whow where the heck is his RAX!!! I'm playing psychological battlegames. The second moment, when that guy says, " omg a bunker in my base, curse you you cheesy rat". I feel as if someone who had a gameplan of a certain type may change it and leave their comfortable zone behind.
So my question to my friends (1000 diamond up plz) here:
How do you respond when you don't see a rax in the terran base? Does it modify your strategy? Does it cause you to second guess? I am typically opening into the 1/1/1 hellion rine medivac push. So one of the downsides of this is that by faking a proxy I may encourage my opponent to get more balogna then he / she would have otherwise. They may scout my early 'weak knees' and push (hooray for bunkers).
My ultimate question is this: If you anticipate very early aggression and prepare for it, how can I punish that anticipation to create an advantage. My practice right now is to tech, which seems like a good plan, but I would like to consider the viability of the FE out of a fake proxy rax. Also, what other options would there be ?
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a good player will check your entire base. this is a pretty common ruse, so its unlikely that you will get away with it.
FE out of fake proxy is pretty risky because if the opponent expects a proxy, he will have enough units to crush your expo. fake proxy into normal play will put you pretty far ahead, and teching is also strong.
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If I see an early SCV scout on a 4 player map or no rax, it probably means proxy in which I'd just play as normal. 9pylon/12gate, chrono zealot, chase reaper with zealot while stalker is building, kill reaper with stalker.
The bunker you put down probably isn't in a good position unless you build it in vision of the other player. In that case, if I see you building a bunker, I'd just send a probe or two to kill your SCV. If your bunker is already down, you're only getting reapers into it unless you sneak marines up my ramp, in which case I'd use Stalkers to kill it off. If the bunker is put down at my ramp. . . then shame on me for not seeing that. I'd probably go blink stalkers or drop play in that case if I choose not to break it depending on the situation.
After "countering" any proxy, any good opponent will scout. In the case of P, I'd just run a Stalker up your ramp and see what you have. If you try to truly FE, you'll be behind on units in which case I'd push, or just simply FE myself.
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true true. the trick is to find a spot to hide it thats close enough to your ramp that you can float it over at a convenient time. I tend to agree with the risk factor of the FE out of the fake proxy. One problem i've found with faking a prroxy rax is that the a supply depot at 10, for normal play, tends to indicate taht its not gonna be a 10 rax proxy, thus I would need to hide both depot and rax to be super deceitful. While it is very helpful to have a depot at ramp to assist with walling if I anticipate an early push once they realize its in fact not a proxy and now they have an early unit advantage.
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If I don't see a barracks in your base, I freak the hell out. That said, I play zerg so defending isn't nearly as difficult as it is for protoss unless you go reapers so I put up an extra queen and crawlers.
I remember seeing some pros doing this in some tourney and I think the game might evolve to look at terran's worker counts if the rax is missing to see if there's a hidden proxy pumping units out or not.
Edit: And it automatically stops my FE, which could be incredibly advantageous (or not since I can go banelings).
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You tell if someone is proxying by scv count, gas and/or orbital command might work against bad players.
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If I don't see rax, I look for depo or gas, if neither comes before 13 supply, I switch to counter proxy build, which means a little bit different BO and possibly cutting a few probes, nothing too wild though.
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No wonder no ones falling for it :[ maybe i should just proxy ;]
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I freaked out a few days ago when I saw a T with no rax in his base. I 12 gated and was like half or more done and I couldnt find his rax so I threw another gateway down. It turned out he just got a very late rax and I canceled my 2nd get and went back to my normal cybercore build. Not seeing the rax really made me jump
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i been doing this for the past month. i still always play normal, but sometimes hiding your buildings some players dont scout your entire base and they play for a cheese. always puts me ahead. btw im protoss
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Vs a T, he will bunker up probably and pump some heavy marines expecting early mass marine or reaper.
Vs a P, he's going to rush for that stalker, not chrono any probes, pump out a zealot or 2 and definitely play paranoid.
The way to capitalize on this is to not even build a barracks! Build a proxied CC on 15! If you can get away with it you will be so vastly ahead it's almost impossible for them to stop you.
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Wouldn't work on me, thats for sure but I guess if someone isn't playing at full potential in Diamond they could mistake it as a full proxy cheese.
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This is a nice trick, but heres the counter to it, count the scvs. If i saw no rax and i count almost even scv count i know that its not a rush, it may be proxied but it wont come out any faster than mine so i have no need to panic. The 2nd thing is Gas (yes/ no? how many workers on it?) and finally OC. If that goes down on 15 then theres no way in hell hes going to be rushing me as its impossible to break a defender with proxy rax that was made when his rax was made.
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My first instinct if I fly my overlord over and it sees no buildings is that there's a proxy. But the real clincher is to check the SCV count. If my scouting overlord sees 3 SCVs on gas, that's 100% guarantee that proxy reapers are coming.
I guess there's the possibility that the terran is making proxy barracks just for a marine rush, in which case my scouting overlord would not see any SCVs on gas, but that doesn't worry me, and noone has really done this to me.
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On September 22 2010 00:33 wackedupwacko wrote:
This is a nice trick, but heres the counter to it, count the scvs. If i saw no rax and i count almost even scv count i know that its not a rush, it may be proxied but it wont come out any faster than mine so i have no need to panic. The 2nd thing is Gas (yes/ no? how many workers on it?) and finally OC. If that goes down on 15 then theres no way in hell hes going to be rushing me as its impossible to break a defender with proxy rax that was made when his rax was made.
Yeah this, I always scout the whole base and count all the scv's.
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The way to capitalize on this is to not even build a barracks! Build a proxied CC on 15! If you can get away with it you will be so vastly ahead it's almost impossible for them to stop you.
This is pure genius!
Early expand, but with a proxied command center somewhere so you can float it to your natural without too much trouble later on.
take a geiser with 3 SCVs on gas.
Your opponent wont want to leave his base, because he will be expecting reapers to arrive soon.
Which allows you to safely get up your command center, and get 150gas. If you can somehow get an engineering bay, by the time he realizes that no reapers are coming, and tries to push...
Tah-dah! planetary fortress fast expand before rax! :D
Then just sit back, macro for a bit, add a bunker and a turret, anjd life is good 
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Well any "good" player would check the whole base, so you wouldn't get away with it. Wasting time building a fake bunker that you're never going to use just doesn't make sense. I could possible make the opponent think a cheese is coming, but there is no cheese... so you're probably just making your opponent get out early forces and cut workers at the most..
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If he thinks you are proxying him he will be looking for it with his scout. So when he finds your proxy CC most Zerg and Protoss will send some lings/ zealots to pressure and double expand themselves.
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thus I would need to hide both depot and rax to be super deceitful
If you don't have a wall and the other player sees it (in Diamond), you will not survive the rush that is definitely coming because most good players check all of an opponent's base. Even if you place the Bunker near your SCVs to prevent very early rushes, the wall-off is the only way Terran can stop mass Zealots/Zerglings.
Building the Bunker in their base would only make it worse because it usually causes the other player to abandon any fast tech options and increase army size instead. This, combined with the fact that you have no wall at your ramp, would lead to you getting steamrolled when your opponent realizes there is no cheese coming and your front door is open.
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On September 22 2010 02:07 BallsOfSteel wrote:If you don't have a wall and the other player sees it (in Diamond), you will not survive the rush that is definitely coming because most good players check all of an opponent's base. Even if you place the Bunker near your SCVs to prevent very early rushes, the wall-off is the only way Terran can stop mass Zealots/Zerglings.
not true. btw when did the gold league's rally point get set to this thread?
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EPT
