EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 274
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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jackdaleaper
Philippines1216 Posts
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Sadform
United Kingdom79 Posts
On June 04 2012 19:48 Corsica wrote: ZvZ question, if i go 15h, and i scout my oponnent going 14/14 which is potentially allin, When should i get my gas/pool and baneling nest to be safe? I generally go 15h 15p 17g and get a bane nest with my first 50 gas if they don't go 15h. | ||
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Sadform
United Kingdom79 Posts
On June 04 2012 20:03 jackdaleaper wrote: Another ZvZ question, if both of us go mutas, which would be the better upgrade? Air attack or carapace? Attack, there is a thread on this forum somewhere which sums up that attack > carapace. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On June 04 2012 20:16 Sadform wrote: Attack, there is a thread on this forum somewhere which sums up that attack > carapace. It's the other way around, carapace is always the better choice if their going muta aswell. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On June 04 2012 20:03 jackdaleaper wrote: Another ZvZ question, if both of us go mutas, which would be the better upgrade? Air attack or carapace? Muta versus Muta, carapace is much better. Because you use your Mutalisks to fight against one another and not just use it for harass, carapace is better because it nigh nullifies the bounce damage. while the attack upgrade only increases the first bounce. So the attack would increase the 9-3-1 of the mutalisks to 10-3-1, while the carapace upgrade would decrease a 9-3-1 muta attack to 8-2-1. So if the opponent goes for attack while you go for carapace, you do 9-3-1 damage while the opponent would do 9-2-1 damage to you. It is neglible, but with upwards of 20 mutalisks, it does help. The upgrades only really help you out when the opponent is behind in mutalisks and tries to fight back with muta vs muta anyway. So they won't be the savior in most games. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On June 04 2012 20:16 Sadform wrote: I generally get 15h 15p 17g and get a bane nest with my first 50 gas if they don't go 15h. To add to that, add a spinecrawler in your natural the second your pool finishes. And if you really want to be safe and the map allows it, put the Baneling nest near your ramp to make the block off tighter for queens and move the spinecrawler forward so the Zerglings have to go the long way round. Add a second queen and don't be shy to pull both of them to block, even if you miss an inject. | ||
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Sadform
United Kingdom79 Posts
On June 04 2012 20:19 Host- wrote: It's the other way around, carapace is always the better choice if their going muta aswell. Oops, sure it was the other way around. I think I got it mixed up with roach v roach :D. | ||
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Thesper
United Kingdom37 Posts
+1 attack doesn't increase damage on either bounce so only increases total damage by 1. So carapace is much better. A question I have for ZvZ is whether it's worth upgrading from +2 missile +1 carapace to +2 carapace in midgame with a roach centric army against another roach centric army. As far as I can tell it doesn't affect roach vs. roach, +2/+1 roaches and +2/+2 roaches kill each other in 9 hits, it's marginally useful against hydras (+2 hydras kill in 14 hits instead of 13) and infested terrans (+2 infesteds kill in 21 hits instead of 19). That said, roaches that eat 1 fungal die in 1 more roach shot with +2 carapace...but roaches that eat 2 or more fungals don't. My feeling is in general it isn't worth 225/225, other tech or more infestors/hydras would be better, but I'd like to hear other opinions. | ||
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ChaosArcher
Germany956 Posts
This is a serious question, i scouted them pretty early and still had no chance http://drop.sc/191391 | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:40 Mahtasooma wrote: How can I tell a onerax expand form a 2rax with rax + offrax with a dronescout? Well, maybe someone can answer that better than me but when I see no gas, I make a quick count of the SCVs and if they're too few (i don't know the exact numbers, though), I assume it's a 2 raxs. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:40 Mahtasooma wrote: How can I tell a onerax expand form a 2rax with rax + offrax with a dronescout? "Count" the scv's. If it looks like there are 2 scv's in most the mineral patches then it's a 1 rax expo. If there's only one or two patches with 2 scv's then it's probably a 2rax. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
On June 05 2012 01:04 Servius_Fulvius wrote: "Count" the scv's. If it looks like there are 2 scv's in most the mineral patches then it's a 1 rax expo. If there's only one or two patches with 2 scv's then it's probably a 2rax. but when? I need something along the lines of "at time X, if there's only 2 patches with 2scvs, it's a tworax of some sort, else it's a onerax expo" | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On June 05 2012 01:15 Mahtasooma wrote: but when? I need something along the lines of "at time X, if there's only 2 patches with 2scvs, it's a tworax of some sort, else it's a onerax expo" A drone scout sent from your base from 12-14ish will see those indicators (14ish scv's for a 1 rax expo). A 9 scout will see less scv's, but you could circle the mineral line until the drone dies to see these things. If there's something like, 10-11 scv's then it's probably a 2 rax since two scv's will be building rax's and one scouting. If you want EXACT time/scv markers you will either need to download higher level TvZ's or watch your own replays and count the scv's at given times. You can cross-check it with drone scout timings either from your replays or by creating a custom game against computers and timing when the drone arrives versus the replay benchmarks. Since these are basic openers all this can be accomplished in 15 minutes. Anyway, I've been scouting like this the the last month and have always predicted correctly based off 14ish scv's when my 13 scout arrives (I send it when waiting for the 14drone larva to appear). Granted, this is always followed up with the overlord scout over the terran main at around 6 minutes. Plus your first lings at the watchtowers should identify the rushing marines unless both rax's were proxied (and scouting an empty base is a DEAD giveaway). | ||
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:40 Mahtasooma wrote: How can I tell a onerax expand form a 2rax with rax + offrax with a dronescout? In addition, if he's going 2 rax he won't have the minerals to immediately drop down his second supply depot, where if he's going 1 rax cc then he'll be making the supply depot around 15-16 food, which will often block your drone inside his base. This is just another identifier that points to 1 rax cc, but it's definitely not a "hard identifier", so don't come back and say "omg the guy made a depot on 15 and i still died to a 2rax". | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On June 05 2012 02:25 HyperionDreamer wrote: In addition, if he's going 2 rax he won't have the minerals to immediately drop down his second supply depot, where if he's going 1 rax cc then he'll be making the supply depot around 15-16 food, which will often block your drone inside his base. This is just another identifier that points to 1 rax cc, but it's definitely not a "hard identifier", so don't come back and say "omg the guy made a depot on 15 and i still died to a 2rax". This actually isn't true because the most common type of 1 rax cc is where you make the cc before 2nd depot so the building of the 2nd depot or not isn't a tell at all anymore. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On June 05 2012 02:33 Moosegills wrote: This actually isn't true because the most common type of 1 rax cc is where you make the cc before 2nd depot so the building of the 2nd depot or not isn't a tell at all anymore. At least if the second depot is early it tells you it's not 11/11, but no second depot doesn't tell you much. | ||
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On June 05 2012 02:33 Moosegills wrote: This actually isn't true because the most common type of 1 rax cc is where you make the cc before 2nd depot so the building of the 2nd depot or not isn't a tell at all anymore. Really? I've not seen that even once (making cc before second depot) in high master NA. Weird.... If you make that CC first, wouldn't you have to cut a worker to make another marine/scv without getting supply blocked? On June 05 2012 02:51 Amaterasu1234 wrote: Is there a general overview of how to play vs toss? I need one...because I do not understand the match up in the slightest. Immortal Colossi simply doesn't die no matter what and literally destroys anything on the ground no matter what I do. Use the search function. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320038 | ||
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