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On April 27 2012 16:13 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:45 zuRbeK wrote:
What is a better follow-up when playing ling infestor against marine/tank, ultras or corruptor/brood lord? Both can be played. broodlords are bit longer to get, and they will benefit less from the evo chamber upgrades than ultralisks. They are better in direct confrontations but are quite slow and it's difficult to engage. Most players go for broodlords. ultras (my favorite) come quicker and make you more active; but direct confrontations will not be as one sided. Then, I tend to believe more and more that the good thing to do is quick transitions from one to another: like making ultralisks first; then when there are too many marauders, switch to broodlords; and when there are too many vikings, switch back to ultralisks... Such transitions, with the element of surprise, are quite helpful I would say.
The way I've heard it is that you go ultras if you have an upgrade advantage. What I'll do is go ling festor into ultra and then eventually work towards broods, while trying to preserve as many infestors as possible.
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is there any way to beat extreme turtle style (defensive pf, tank lines, sensor towers, turret ring, vikings) with nuke harass into raven viking bc ghost tank thor?
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I tried asking for help with a build, but no one answered. So I'll post again....
In zvt I like to open 15 hatch 15 pool, then get 4 roaches to push away the hellions and secure a 3rd.
Midgame I like to go muta ling bling, and then tansition to infestor BL lategame. Is there a build like that out there? Give link please?
I'm having a hard time using the search function of TL. I usually dont find what I'm looking for :/
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On April 27 2012 20:06 gronnelg wrote:
I tried asking for help with a build, but no one answered. So I'll post again....
In zvt I like to open 15 hatch 15 pool, then get 4 roaches to push away the hellions and secure a 3rd.
Midgame I like to go muta ling bling, and then tansition to infestor BL lategame. Is there a build like that out there? Give link please?
I'm having a hard time using the search function of TL. I usually dont find what I'm looking for :/
What do you need a build for? What i mean is, identify the problems you're having and then maybe ask for a solution to them. A "build" more specified than 15/15 wont do much good in my experience since you'll encounter so many different builds. Learn to identify timings and problems and try to figure out a path of action from that.
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On April 27 2012 20:06 gronnelg wrote:
I tried asking for help with a build, but no one answered. So I'll post again....
In zvt I like to open 15 hatch 15 pool, then get 4 roaches to push away the hellions and secure a 3rd.
Midgame I like to go muta ling bling, and then tansition to infestor BL lategame. Is there a build like that out there? Give link please?
I'm having a hard time using the search function of TL. I usually dont find what I'm looking for :/
not that i know off, non-offensive strategies for zerg especially in zvt have to be very reactive so it would surprise me if anyone got a "build" like that. I'm guessing the hardest part of your build should be when to transition to infestor BL, and the best help i can give you is to start the transition if the terran economy grows beyond two bases, or if he's being very passive. Constant agression and not too much expanding from terran and it's probably a better idea to stay on muta/blings. Generally as long you keep a good economy in comparison to the terran, and make units with the rest you will be playing really well, Use your starsense!
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On April 27 2012 20:23 Cry4Me wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 20:06 gronnelg wrote:
I tried asking for help with a build, but no one answered. So I'll post again....
In zvt I like to open 15 hatch 15 pool, then get 4 roaches to push away the hellions and secure a 3rd.
Midgame I like to go muta ling bling, and then tansition to infestor BL lategame. Is there a build like that out there? Give link please?
I'm having a hard time using the search function of TL. I usually dont find what I'm looking for :/ What do you need a build for? What i mean is, identify the problems you're having and then maybe ask for a solution to them. A "build" more specified than 15/15 wont do much good in my experience since you'll encounter so many different builds. Learn to identify timings and problems and try to figure out a path of action from that.
Well, what I'm look for, is something comparable to TangSC guide to the stephano build. Like, when to do what, why you want to do it, what to look for, and stuff like that...
stephano:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324733
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Can someone please help me with decision making and micro in zvp? I played vs protoss on entombed valley, went for stephano style but could not break him.
Later i transitioned to infestor while getting hive tech, but he killed me before greater spire.
Macro shouldnt be the issue either as i was pretty much maxed at 11.10...
Replay: http://drop.sc/168006
I suspect i need spines, but i am totally lost on the timing of those...
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I would like to know which upgrade do i have to research first in the evo's chambers. I always upgrade range attack first if i am going roach/hydra/infestor play and armor if im going ling/bane.
Is that right?
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How on earth do you play ling/infestor vs marine/tank? Fungals or burrow with Infested terrans? How should you control your lings and infestors together?
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How should I saturate my minerals? I've been rallying so I have 20 drones on one hatch, then rally both hatches to the 2nd until it has 20, then rally all hatches to the 3rd until it has 20 etc.
I heard 3 workers per patch is ideal, but I think it's more worth it to saturate a new base after 20 drones rather than keep saturating one base, or? I'm not sure where I got that from, but it's what I've been doing without really thinking about it too much, lol.
I think I saw some pro replay where one base never had more than 23 drones on minerals at any given point =S
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On April 28 2012 02:30 Starshaped wrote:
How should I saturate my minerals? I've been rallying so I have 20 drones on one hatch, then rally both hatches to the 2nd until it has 20, then rally all hatches to the 3rd until it has 20 etc.
I heard 3 workers per patch is ideal, but I think it's more worth it to saturate a new base after 20 drones rather than keep saturating one base, or? I'm not sure where I got that from, but it's what I've been doing without really thinking about it too much, lol.
I think I saw some pro replay where one base never had more than 23 drones on minerals at any given point =S
16 drones on minerals is optimal. try splitting your drones up on 4 bases for best income. otherwise just try to stay evenly saturated, but avoid having more than 16 on one base while below 16 on another.
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Is there a way to death with the lategame Protoss deathball other than either: A.) not getting there by doing some stephano style max out and ending the game early(or any other timing push), or B.) Getting broodlord/infestor and a massive spine forest?
It would be nice to have some variety, but every time I try doing something else it just fails.
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On April 28 2012 06:17 Killmour wrote:
Is there a way to death with the lategame Protoss deathball other than either: A.) not getting there by doing some stephano style max out and ending the game early(or any other timing push), or B.) Getting broodlord/infestor and a massive spine forest?
It would be nice to have some variety, but every time I try doing something else it just fails.
there is the third option of base trading with mutas but generally no
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On April 28 2012 06:26 willverrecken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 06:17 Killmour wrote:
Is there a way to death with the lategame Protoss deathball other than either: A.) not getting there by doing some stephano style max out and ending the game early(or any other timing push), or B.) Getting broodlord/infestor and a massive spine forest?
It would be nice to have some variety, but every time I try doing something else it just fails. there is the third option of base trading with mutas but generally no
I dont really like this anwser. If you ask me, there's a million ways! You just have to figure them out! Go out and experiment!
I've started using a build that starts out 14/14 and fakes all-in/preassure into 2base muta (after which i double expand, it's not an all-in build), it has given me a pretty sick winrate vs protoss on masters level. Try your own stuff and see how it works!
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ZvZ has really been bugging me lately (pun intended), specifically 14/14 vs 15hatch. If it's the standard 15hatch I'm always comfortable, I drone like crazy behind my initial 6 lings and we both enter the midgame on fairly even economies.
However, what should I do against the 15hatchers who get gas ASAP and just spam pure speedlings at you, or even banes? It feels like I always assume it's gonna be fine for me to mass drones, and then I suddenly see a ton of speedlings coming. Obviously his production is far greater than mine by then, so I don't feel like I can mass lings and just defend. Should I just get a crawler and make banelings and hope I land a lucky hit or what?
Also, is 15hatch safe even against 6/7/8pool type all-ins? Because if it is then I think i'll definitely switch to 15hatch in ZvZ as it seems to always come out a little ahead against 14/14.
Finally, if I 14/14 expand against someone who goes 14/14 ling/bane all-in, what's the best response? Just putting 2 queens on my ramp and holding out until I get banes and maybe a crawler? Or try to plant a crawler on my nat ASAP and try defending from the start with just queen/ling/crawler? Since I pull drones from gas I won't have banes out as fast as him (if at all).
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I'm looking for replays that show how to properly execute a 14/14 baneling opening into either an expansion or an all-in. I'd like to request a nudge in the right direction (VODs and/or replays) or, if anyone is willing, replays of your own that you'd like to show me.
Cheers.
(I realise TL.net is not my personal search engine; I am actually looking on my own. This is for the sake of efficiency.)
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On April 28 2012 20:32 snexwang wrote:
I'm looking for replays that show how to properly execute a 14/14 baneling opening into either an expansion or an all-in. I'd like to request a nudge in the right direction (VODs and/or replays) or, if anyone is willing, replays of your own that you'd like to show me.
Cheers.
(I realise TL.net is not my personal search engine; I am actually looking on my own. This is for the sake of efficiency.)
Not sure a replay is needed to learn it:
9overlord
14gas
14pool
15overlord
queen/4-6lings/speed (remove from gas at 100)
expand
2nd queen/put drones back in gas (I like to put back on gas when 2nd queen is ~30% done) etc.
(send your first overlord to his natural, spread all other across the map)
After the expansion is put down what you do is really dependent on what your opponent is doing, but this is the basic build. You can leave drones on gas and expand behind a baneling nest, but I think it's worse in every single way, so I don't recommend it.
If you want to 14/14 all-in then just follow the same build except you don't remove drones from gas and you don't expand, and you add a bane nest ASAP and then just pump lings/banes.
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On April 28 2012 03:15 willverrecken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:30 Starshaped wrote:
How should I saturate my minerals? I've been rallying so I have 20 drones on one hatch, then rally both hatches to the 2nd until it has 20, then rally all hatches to the 3rd until it has 20 etc.
I heard 3 workers per patch is ideal, but I think it's more worth it to saturate a new base after 20 drones rather than keep saturating one base, or? I'm not sure where I got that from, but it's what I've been doing without really thinking about it too much, lol.
I think I saw some pro replay where one base never had more than 23 drones on minerals at any given point =S 16 drones on minerals is optimal. try splitting your drones up on 4 bases for best income. otherwise just try to stay evenly saturated, but avoid having more than 16 on one base while below 16 on another.
Quit saying that, it's so wrong. "Optimal" is whatever you need. This is the worst piece of misinformation I see come up so regularly.
After 16 workers, you have diminishing *marginal* returns per each additional worker, meaning each additional worker (the 17th, then 18th, then 19th..) have less additional benefit than the one before it, but it still increases your income. The application of this, is that you maynard your workers properly - not that you should never make more than 16 workers mining. That's just retarded.
Starshaped - if you have a third base that you can drone up, by all means, send your drone there. You always want your workers split as evenly among your bases as possible. But if you can't get your third, you are better off droning up the 2 you have. Like in ZvT, vs standard reactor hellion play, you should be aiming to make ~50 drones before making units. Optimal amount of drones, is most amount of drones, up to 24 per mining mineral field. Only reason to cut back is because you want to make units. Of course you always want more drones. If you seroiusly stop at 16, i can't imagine how you get past platinum.
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This has probably been asked already but, what do I do if the Protoss does not FFE in ZvP?
I always Stephano style ZvP, and that screws my game up if my opponent does not FFE. In other words, I need help in all
aspect of ZvP. Hell, I need help in all match-ups. I won't crowd the thread with all of my flaws.
TaOKusthos.945
PM me if you want more in-depth explanation. Thanks!
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EPT
