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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On April 15 2012 04:24 TheMooseHeed wrote: Can a 15 hatch zerg hold a 6 pool drone allin or is it impossible? Same for 7 8 9 and 10 pool? Sometimes I manage it but I cant tell if it was because it works or they just played it bad I've seen Nestea do it. So yeah it's impossible. | ||
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kaliax
United States48 Posts
On April 15 2012 13:22 LolitsPing wrote: Against Terran how do you deal with early pressure as well as overlord placements? I've straight out died against drops in the back of my main, hellion marauders and that's sending me on the track from diamond back to platinum. When should i scout and how should i react when I don't see a natural at 6 minutes? If you're doing infestor/ling, marauder hellion is tricky because your infestors won't be out in time (I'm talking about the 1 base all-in, if they do a 2 base push, infestor with +1/+1 ling will crush it). If you don't see a nat around 6 mins, two possibilities are 2 port banshee play, or hellion marauder allin. If you got in a scouting drone earlier, you can scout the double-gas required for 2port banshee. If it got blocked, try to sac an ov to check gases. If that gets denied, you pretty much have to throw down a blind spore at your main. This is also how I personally deal with aggresive drop play, because good spore placement either forces the terran to offload far away so you can surround with lings, or forces him to take the long way around, giving you more time to scout it and prepare. There's a general reluctance among zerg to get spores because it wastes those precious drones, but it's surprising how much it disrupts drop play when you have just infestors and queens to deal with air. The response to most 1 base play, however, is to get a few extra queens (4 to 6 total), a, extra spine or two, and trying to get as much creep out as possible. Terran will be reluctant to engage your nat with hellion/marauder until they clear your creep, buying you precious seconds to continue massing lings. Your +1 +1 should finish in time (do not engage until then, keep stalling!). Wait until the last possible second (don't be afraid to sac any wall-off buildings like macro hatch and spines if you have more lings on the way) to engage, and do not let the hellions position against your where you can't get a complete surround. One of the biggest problem people have engaging these types of pushes is attacking too early and misrallying lings and queens and losing them in small chunks. Your queens should be able to absorb quite a bit of damage with transfuse, and marauders will melt once the hellions are killed. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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kiklion
99 Posts
On April 15 2012 08:57 kingsleigh wrote: Just throw down gas after your Pool if you scouted 1 base opener from the Toss and go Speedling expand and go from there. Concerning the 1 Gate FE or a 4 Gate, keep poking around his ramp to see if there's a nexus going down or if you can get a peek inside his main for some additional gateways, the longer you don't see the expansion, the more you have to prepare. Also helps if you can get an overlord at the sides of his base. If you scout a 4 Gate in time, 5-7 spines and lings should deal with it if you don't have a RW, if you do have one, make 3 or so Spines if you don't think you can pump out enough Roaches in time. 1 zealot alone will not kill an extractor, you can steal a gas and then keep cancel/remaking, usually they will throw down all 4 gateways after the stalker comes out, if you see the stalker and zealot attacking your extractor (IE the stalker came out) immediately cancel and run to where you know they had pylons (as the first two pylons would have been up before the zealot could kill your drone). This will prevent them from being able to go a fast tech to DT's or Air, and allows you to scout the 4 gate or delay it until they kill your drone. | ||
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qwertyindeed
151 Posts
On April 15 2012 20:29 VoO wrote: Anyone know the overlord positions on Ohana and Metropolis? i am wondering the same for 1st couple of ols, especially vs terran on ohana, Can they see the ol on those rocks across the map, it seems like they can. | ||
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Trollandknights
United States68 Posts
I want to have it so i dont have a excess of gas. Thanks | ||
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bakedace
United States672 Posts
On April 16 2012 01:33 Trollandknights wrote: How many roaches can i produce one 2 bases? how many gas should i need, 2, off of 2 fully saturated bases with larva injects? I want to have it so i dont have a excess of gas. Thanks I believe you need 3 gas if you are teching up to roach speed. Either way if you begin to accrue too much gas, simply pull drones off. | ||
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Trollandknights
United States68 Posts
On April 16 2012 01:33 Trollandknights wrote: How many roaches can i produce one 2 bases? how many gas should i need, 2, off of 2 fully saturated bases with larva injects? I want to have it so i dont have a excess of gas. Thanks I believe you need 3 gas if you are teching up to roach speed. Either way if you begin to accrue too much gas, simply pull drones off. sorry for asking again but how many for a single base too, i just lost to a 4 gate and i was on 2 under-saturated bases, if i was on a single saturated bases with roaches, i think i could have won it | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
On April 16 2012 02:34 Starshaped wrote: I just switched to Zerg. How viable is it to abuse mutalisks in all three matchups? I know it's pretty standard in ZvT, but I'm not too sure about the rest. I've seen some 2 base muta with mass spines in ZvZ I think. They're viable in all matchups. They're great against protoss for harass, or if you get them in a good mass, you can force a base trade, and they're the best base-trading unit in the game. However, phoenix's were buffed recently. I don't know how often that upgrade is used (I've only seen it twice at a high level of play) but that can make the mutas almost obsolete without getting a good fungal off. ZvZ they aren't strong army wise, but they're great for securing map control. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
sorry for asking again but how many for a single base too, i just lost to a 4 gate and i was on 2 under-saturated bases, if i was on a single saturated bases with roaches, i think i could have won it You can produce like maybe 4 a minute, with larva inject? You cannot beat a 4 gate if you are on 1 base... Protoss will have map control with his 4 gate, deny your expo, and then expand first. From there you are just so behind, that you've lost the game. If you are having trouble holding 4 gate, do this: Play your game, do your opening, whatever, and with your scouting drone, see if he took gas or not. It's pretty simple. If he didn't, drone up to only 30-35, and then sac an overlord and check his front with a ling. As long as you stop droning between 30-35, you should hold 4 gate. You can mass spines with speedlings on some maps, or you can go roach/ling. You hold, then get lair on 2 base, then mass speedroaches, kill toss, win. But you will always lose if you are on 1 base... there is no reason for you to be on 1 base against any toss opening. You need to always expand expand expand. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Do you take a third gas when going roach/baneling all-in in ZvT? The way I've played it, was like ~44 roach warren and 2nd gas, then save larva for roaches and pop extra overlords, then when warren pops, like 10 roaches and a baneling nest. But I always seem to not have enough for banes, or my banes are way too late (i've won most of my roach/bane all-ins with just the roaches alone) due to gas issues. Maybe I should take 2nd gas earlier? I go roach/baneling all-in if I see T go fast third, or I'm playing an opponent again that I know will go fast third based on previous games. Seems to always work out. But I'd like to do it better. | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
On April 16 2012 04:27 Belial88 wrote: I have a question now: Do you take a third gas when going roach/baneling all-in in ZvT? The way I've played it, was like ~44 roach warren and 2nd gas, then save larva for roaches and pop extra overlords, then when warren pops, like 10 roaches and a baneling nest. But I always seem to not have enough for banes, or my banes are way too late (i've won most of my roach/bane all-ins with just the roaches alone) due to gas issues. Maybe I should take 2nd gas earlier? I go roach/baneling all-in if I see T go fast third, or I'm playing an opponent again that I know will go fast third based on previous games. Seems to always work out. But I'd like to do it better. Every time I've seen in done, second and third gases are added at the same time. So yeah, take a third gas. | ||
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Mizzit
United States9 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
On April 16 2012 06:58 Mizzit wrote: I'm sure that this has been asked before, but I can not seem to find a clear answer. What would be the most optimal opening to deal with early pool builds? I have been doing a 14 pool 16 hatch 16 gas opening, but I'm wondering if it would be better just to hold off on the expand until I scout out if they went with and 6,7,or 8 pool? Also is drone scouting at 9 acceptable in ZvZ 1) I have no idea, tbh. I just adapt as necessary. 2) No...expand anyway based on what you scout...which leads to 3) is it acceptable? who cares. I drone scout with my 9th drone in zvz and yesterday it saved me from straight up dying to a 7 pool all-in (still did a crap ton of damage 'cause I've bad macro and decision making...but...that's not the point) | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Do you just instantly lose to prism play if you go for the muta build with mass spines at the nat? horrible question. please be more specific. 2 base muta? 3 base muta? prism all-in from ffe? 1 gate expand? why are you massing spines at nat? I'm sure that this has been asked before, but I can not seem to find a clear answer. What would be the most optimal opening to deal with early pool builds? I have been doing a 14 pool 16 hatch 16 gas opening, but I'm wondering if it would be better just to hold off on the expand until I scout out if they went with and 6,7,or 8 pool? Also is drone scouting at 9 acceptable in ZvZ Hatch first, 10 drone scout. You will arrive in their base to see if they went 6-12 pool, to which you can just not make your hatch first and throw you pool down asap. if they went hatch first of 14/14, you can use your 10 scout to be a bit greedier with your pool. If you go 14 pool 16 hatch, you will see the 6/7/8 pool before you would throw your hatch down. Drone scouting at 9 is not acceptable in ZvZ. Either don't drone scout with 14/14, or drone scout on 2 player maps at 10 because of 10 pools or not at all (6-8 pool doesn't need to be scouted with hatch first, although you will need to send a 14 drone to build a spine in their base if they pull every drone, but you should see if they do that with overlord and send that drone out in time) since overlord will see them in time. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
On April 16 2012 12:22 Belial88 wrote: Hatch first, 10 drone scout. You will arrive in their base to see if they went 6-12 pool, to which you can just not make your hatch first and throw you pool down asap. if they went hatch first of 14/14, you can use your 10 scout to be a bit greedier with your pool. If you go 14 pool 16 hatch, you will see the 6/7/8 pool before you would throw your hatch down. Drone scouting at 9 is not acceptable in ZvZ. Either don't drone scout with 14/14, or drone scout on 2 player maps at 10 because of 10 pools or not at all (6-8 pool doesn't need to be scouted with hatch first, although you will need to send a 14 drone to build a spine in their base if they pull every drone, but you should see if they do that with overlord and send that drone out in time) since overlord will see them in time. Doesn't the drone scout thing only apply for 2 player maps? | ||
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trigun0x2
Canada39 Posts
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