Alright sounds interesting, definitly going to try this one out.

The 2 zealot push sounds great didn't know and thought of it, but I can see it can do some serrious damage to the opponents economy.

What you maybe can do also if you want to expand early is to have gateways block your second choke in like blistering sands and then get your expansion up but this tactic is really simple to counter, the opponent only needs ranged units.

hellsan631

United States695 Posts

August 31 2010 22:32 GMT

#43

Some where there was a post about having reduced warp in speeds depending on how many power fields were located at the warp in position. basically, warp in would slow down unless pylons overlapped. (warp prism would stay at 100%). i think this would actually be a great thing to implement because it would make the 4 gate push a little bit easier to deal with, while still being viable. It would also give the defender a larger advantage (i believe it would be like half speed, to 75% speed, to 100% speed meaning you would need 3 power fields overlap each other to get 100% speed.)

Patriot.dlk

Sweden5462 Posts

September 01 2010 08:38 GMT

#44

Great thread and cool strat

On August 31 2010 16:04 Ernzoa wrote:

Show nested quote +

You're correct in saying that a 1-basing P should be able to crush your early expo if you only have 2gate or so of production. As I explained in my earlier posts, I am skeptical of this strategy for that reason.

And as for PvP tactics, I'm not saying that you should make your strategy reliant on drops or gas steals, but that in general "standard" PvP play usually consists of 2 or 3 gateways, a possible tech building or deviation, or perhaps a 4th gateway. That means that the core of each army early on is quite similar, consisting of mostly gateway units. Because the spectrum of viable builds is somewhat limited to lots of early production, the meta-game calls for both players to stay on 1-base early on. Your intentions of making the match-up less "all-in" by fast expanding run contrary to the meta-game, which means that fast expending is pretty much going "all-in" for the first 10 minutes of the game.

Your understanding if the expressions all-in and metagame is lacking. See http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=130447 for reference

Kiarip

United States1835 Posts

September 01 2010 08:56 GMT

#45

I am skeptical of this, because mass sentries don't really pay off for themselves time-wise.

They're an insane gas sink. You can use them to contain your opponent in his base while you expand, but you just won't get all that gas back from your 2nd base by the time he's gonna want to break out, and he'll be ahead tech-wise (and tech unit-wise.) Sure, you may have more zealots, but if he has voidrays or colossi you're in trouble, and against blink stalkers you also MAY be in trouble.

If he went dts, and you don't have your observer yet, you're also in trouble. So basically you're in trouble against most builds imo, and 4 warp-gate'ing player will just use a pylon on the edge of his plateau to warp units down there and then he'll try to surround from behind, and through the ramp.

whiteguycash

United States476 Posts

September 01 2010 09:21 GMT

#46

I have been doing a Strategy like this in PvP for the past 2-3 days, and have had great success with it in the mid-low tier diamond level. I opt to not get my second gas, however, until my 2nd expo is up and running, and I can afford to throw down a few more gateways. by doing that, I can only really afford stalkers and zealots, but they do very well, suprisingluy If you constantly pump units, as you will have the econ to do so, a teching protoss, such as 2-3 gate robo or stargate simply does not have enough stuff to break your front door. I normally will try to fit in a robo somewhere for obs, but after all 4 geysers are up with 2 fully saturated pushing towards a 3rd expo, you can mass produce colossi out of 2 robo with a strong chargelot production out of your production. Push out as you get your 3rd. normally, you can end the game there, but even if you don't, your econ is so much better than your protoss opponent, that you can macro up super fast.

KillerPenguin

United States516 Posts

September 01 2010 16:53 GMT

#47

Any fast collosus would destroy this and I have, actually I wonder if the mass sentry into fast expo with 3 cannons guy read this. 2 collosus with lance beats 4 gate if they can hold their choke until they get the 2nd collosus. Your expo double robo bay will be slow u will not have a collosus out when they decimate your army with their 2 collosus. This will even have a hard time against 4 gate since the opponent will have 600+ more minerals and it's hard to use the defensive advantage of a expo semi choke to makeup for that.

The idea that you can just mass sentry and delay your opponent so long that u can start to get the economic advantage is a stretch especially if you're not just sitting on their main choke using 1 ff each time. ff doesn't last that long and sentry are not strong in fights with their ff used up blocking an advance.

The way in which this could work is if your opponent is getting dt or pheonix which rarely happens. Even against 4 gate you could double cannon and that might be enough to hold your choke with good ff but if he sees cannons he'll probably just expo and then you won't really have an advantage since even though u expoed first your cannons give you weakened aggression.

We saw in the Huk vs KiwiKaki games what pvp is all about, it's about going 4 gate or 3 gate robo for immortal/collosus and then if you are 4 gate attacking to try to prevent him from getting collosus and if you are robo holding your choke and probably stopping collosus tech and pumping immortals if he's on your doorstep.

Percutio

United States1672 Posts

September 02 2010 23:56 GMT

#48

I used a slight variation of this today and actually beat a 1 base Colossi player. What worked for me was getting blink stalkers so that I could pick off attacking Colossi.

It shouldn't work on all the maps, but basically I went with fast 2 gates just in case I need to stop early pressure or I suspect a Korean style 4 warpgate all in. If there isn't pressure I take both my gases and throw a cyber down. After that I pump sentries/zealots while a forge builds so I can expand under the safety of forcefields and cannons. At this point I usually have 5-6 sentries, a few cannons, and an expo going up.

The timing worked nicely so that I had multiple warpgates pumping stalkers while I got blink. I think you could even work in hallucination and other tech options off of this. The blink stalkers ended up killing off the Colossi effectively enough seeing as how I had a better economy.