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[D] The New Morrow Opening (spoilers) - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 00:07:48
August 23 2010 23:39 GMT
#81
msv's been doing this since early beta. the z has to basically turtle until they have enough stuff to move out with otherwise they will get backdoored and/or flanked.

In every game msv played vs idra in beta he beat him in the same fashion because idra power drones too much. I'd say the build was more a counter to idra's playstyle than zerg itself.
NATO
Profile Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
August 24 2010 05:08 GMT
#82
Except for the first two games, Idra seemed to play really badly. I think he was tilting. Morrow on the other hand, was extremely solid. I don't think most people can control reapers like that while microing perfectly, etc, etc. This is a build for the pros.
MoNoNauT
Profile Joined April 2010
United States74 Posts
August 24 2010 05:40 GMT
#83
I'm pretty positive that banelings are the proper response to mass reapers. I've been amazed at the complete lack of any mention of banelings whenever this 5-rax reaper nonsense is discussed. I've played a few Terran since the IEM that all go for mass-reaper openings and they all lose to well-positioned banelings... I'm only platinum though, so it's not like I'm playing against any MorroWs.

Banelings are not classified as light, so they take 4 shots from a reaper without dying. Even if they are kited and killed, the splash has a pretty good chance of hitting at least a few. If you have an opportunity to position them well, you can run the reapers into the banelings with speedlings, or vice versa.
"The best counter to anything in Starcraft is to go fuckin' kill him." - Day[9]
juw
Profile Joined August 2010
76 Posts
August 24 2010 05:53 GMT
#84
^^ no, reapers own banelings
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 08:08:02
August 24 2010 07:38 GMT
#85
i dont see any real counter to this build, sure you might be able to just barely survive it but then its gg after that. The only 2 units you can get are roaches and/or lings by the time the reapers attack, and ive tried spines, speedlings, queens, roaches, and combinations of them and reapers just roll over all of them. seems like this build has actually broken the matchup.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
August 24 2010 11:57 GMT
#86
The counter is really out microing with lings or being really shifty with roaches but I doubt that its possible for equal skilled zerg players to use roaches to win.

Slakter
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden1947 Posts
August 24 2010 12:01 GMT
#87
This build is seriously ridiculous against Zerg one some maps. For instance Xel Naga caverns. Oh, he´s popped up a few spines in the front, just going back Trolololo. Oh, hes gotten some spines there too! I guess ill just blast em with my nades in 2 seconds!

Srsly, this BO is really overpowered becouse When you finally start building a spire he can just blow it in 3 seconds -.-
Protoss, can't live with em', can't kill em'.
Onioncookie
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany624 Posts
August 24 2010 12:56 GMT
#88
Having huge trouble with this right here , just lost 3 games in a row against this BO...

Reapers are actually quite decent to defend with lings , the problem is you just do throw so much stuff against the reapers that u will fall behind in eco ...

After Reapers is a Huge problem to me !! ( i mostly get my expansion up)

Option 1 ... U get Mutas early enough ... he will just turret slighty and put some marines on while he is already sitting on 2 bases .. ur like on 1- 1,5 bases ... and then he Pushes with Marines/marauder .... Banelings wont help that much cuz ur behind in eco....

Option 2 u cant get mutas early enough and had to build to much roaches to defend against reapers , that he will just 1A Push with marauders

This all depends on how well he can micro the reapers ... if he controls them godlike ... ur just waay behind ... <- this is what i call imba

Anyone got a good solution? 1-2 spines at critical spots help alot but wont stop that much

ULtraLT
Profile Joined June 2010
Lithuania11 Posts
August 24 2010 15:23 GMT
#89
remove the reapers form game,since they are wortless mid/late game
problem fixed
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 15:42:50
August 24 2010 15:42 GMT
#90
On August 25 2010 00:23 ULtraLT wrote:
remove the reapers form game,since they are wortless mid/late game
problem fixed


You guys make think this sounds trollish but this is not a bad idea.

The only problem is that 2 gate inbase proxies are ridiculously hard to deal with without reapers, but 2 gates are OP anyways period. Chronoboost has some flaws in that aspect.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 17:10:20
August 24 2010 17:02 GMT
#91
it would probably make more sense to remove reaper speed as opposed to reapers alltogethe or just require something like ghost academy to research reaper speed. I've actually decided to stop playing sc2 until either a counter is found to this build or blizzard fixes the rediculous balance issues.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
john0507
Profile Joined August 2010
164 Posts
August 24 2010 19:47 GMT
#92
Reapers aren't the issue , they aren't imba by any means , just simply a good starting unit.
The problem lies with zerg , the reaper opening won't work against ANY other Race due to the T1 units the other 2 Races have (Rines/Marauders/Stalkers) fair relatively well against reapers due to range.
Then take a look at what T1 units Zerg has with decent range ... absolutely nothing.
Hence there is no Hard counter , or even soft counter for the Reaper Opening, even at best if you micro perfectly you are just able to even out , which ends in you surviving and not losing econ , and him getting a "free" expansion and transitioning perfectly into a BioMech Mid/Late game, Which IMO , favours Terran more.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 24 2010 19:48 GMT
#93
To counter this 5 rax reaper speedling is not the answer. Roach's are they work wonderful against it as long as you get them early enough :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
slappyosis
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada9 Posts
August 24 2010 19:59 GMT
#94
I predict a roach buff taking their attack from 3 range to 4 range. once that happens reapers wont be able to kite roaches and do any damage. whatever the solution it should be a zerg buff because mass reapers is very balanced vs. T or P.
john0507
Profile Joined August 2010
164 Posts
August 24 2010 20:10 GMT
#95
On August 25 2010 04:48 blade55555 wrote:
To counter this 5 rax reaper speedling is not the answer. Roach's are they work wonderful against it as long as you get them early enough :D


No way roach is the answer simple cos Reaper outranges them and outmoves them , unless the terran makes a mistake , roaches shouldn't even hit them.

No doubt zerg needs a buff , zerg needs a T1 decent ranged unit , like MM/Stalker.
Prolly Reduce Roaches DPS but give it a better range or whatever.
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 22:47:13
August 24 2010 22:37 GMT
#96
Rethinking about this strategy, it sounds like standard zerg builds like 14 pool (or later pool) is no longer viable against Terran. Is it possible that something more like a 10 pool into fast roaches for defense, or even something like 8-10 pool early lings or banelings offense to delay the terran might be viable against this build, or even double gas steal?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
ZaaaaaM
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1828 Posts
August 24 2010 22:46 GMT
#97
On August 23 2010 09:59 Vexx wrote:
*derail*
+ Show Spoiler +

I was undecided between Z and T at diamond but after a 45 minute TvT tank+viking fest, I was turned off the idea of playing terran almost completely. Then I watched IEM yesterday and I could not be any more disgusted by the race.

Between "skillful" marauder "kiting" (Good job finding the s button!), abusive reaper play with all the cliffs and even more abusive hellion play, I could not play one more game as terran. It is my personal belief that abuse of game mechanics has nothing to do with skill (I know I'm in the minority.. I've had this argument in every game I've ever played).

Really, farthest/hardest hitting ground unit, fastest hardest hitting most mobile harass units, farthest hitting air to air units, easiest tech line and scan on demand... bleh. */derail*


I'm of the opinion that "mass reaper" builds into hellions will get shit on by roach builds that switch to speedlings once the T goes marauders. The reason being that the reapers can be abusive against roaches when they are kiting them, but they can try to kite at their own risk when the roaches are in T's base.

slight OT;p
+ Show Spoiler +
I had the exact same feelings, switched to zerg which is seriously harder- but it feels damn good
no dude, the question
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
August 24 2010 22:51 GMT
#98
Calling this the MorroW build is kinda shallow.

Mutas does ok, but not really because a quick GA into 5 ghosts shuts it down
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
August 24 2010 22:57 GMT
#99
what is the exact reaper build?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Zerokaiser
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada885 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 23:15:56
August 24 2010 23:15 GMT
#100
On August 25 2010 07:57 Disastorm wrote:
what is the exact reaper build?


7 Barracks all with Tech Labs, mass reapers and then into marauders. I don't know the exact build x.x
Lanaia is love.
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