[D] The New Morrow Opening (spoilers) - Page 3

On August 23 2010 10:41 PrinceXizor wrote:

also LOL at the gg before you are even lair, the whole infestor idea was based on the fast lair (lair before queen), which means the lair comes out about 30 game seconds after your queen would normally finish (IE before the first batch of larva pop). so you definitely get lair, and you use spine (s) and speedlings to force back reapers (while protecting the important things).

On August 23 2010 09:48 threehundred wrote:
i think a lair first, before queen opening would be better. but the timings against other openers without a queen inject needs to be worked out ;<

the point is idra was researching roach speed as soon as lair was done, and i suppose getting to lair quicker would help out tremendously. but then again back to my point, you need to work out your 'safety measures' vs other terran openers without a queen/inject.

On August 23 2010 10:52 seiferoth10 wrote:

Remember, getting early lair also pushes back ling speed. With the 14 extractor/pool build, you have just about 100 gas as your pool pops.

On August 23 2010 10:13 Fortress wrote:


As MorroW showed us during the tournament, this will get your expansion sacked. The only chance you have of saving your expansion with this approach is to get a massive surround on his reapers, but when the Terran has gotten around 10 reapers, he's reached the point where he can decimate your lings before they get their surround. What I mean is that using the ling/queen approach is entirely reliant on the Terran player making a blunder, rather than having a practical and solid defense.

In my opinion, the best way to counter this, is to spread out the creep as far as possible, so your Roaches can chase the Reapers as far as possible, and position them strategically along the cliff edges of your bases. Not overcomitting to the Roach force, and knowing when you're able to get your (relatively) fast tech off will be the deciding factor in this defense.


I'm not a Zerg player however. My last paragraph is mostly theorycrafting, but loosely based on what little success IdrA had vs. this strategy. On Metalopolis, where MorroW lost, he didn't manage to hurt IdrA's economy in time, and delayed his big push to the point where he let IdrA build up 6 Mutalisks, which instantly lost him the game.

On August 23 2010 11:26 Internet wrote:
I've successfully fended of various reaper-attacks with burrow, which is an ability I haven't seen mentioned. Burrowing a handful of zerglings at a strategic location has done me pretty well for instantly surrounding reapers—there is some level of prediction, but I think its benefits overshadow having to try to speedling-surround them.

I'm not an expert SC player, but does this strategy seem viable in this situation?

On August 23 2010 11:39 Fortress wrote:


That is also a possibility, but you are just too vulnerable before Lair without any Roaches. If you get Roaches, it doesn't matter if you get the burrow or the Roach speed, either one will deter the Reapers for good after that. By then though, the Terran will have moved on to Marauders or whatnot.

On August 23 2010 11:47 PrinceXizor wrote:

only NEED roaches if you are slow to lair or you are unable to micro your lings properly. and are unwilling to make spines

On August 23 2010 11:50 WCH wrote:


Have any replays of this burrow stuff you are talking about. Seems like you are just theory crafting, spines get raped by reapers btw once the numbers start getting larger.

On August 23 2010 11:56 PrinceXizor wrote:

you use spines early on and then speedlings until the lair finishes, i don't use burrow vs reapers, someone else does, but fortress has consistantly stated that roaches are mandatory under any circumstance, and that is wrong. so i was calling him on it. WCH i can stop the reapers, but you pretty much lose the macro game overall unless the terran slips up or you get super lucky w/ your lings. i can't WIN a game that starts with a ton of reaps but i can get past the reap stage.

On August 23 2010 11:59 WCH wrote:


Exactly same problem I have, I can stop them but then you lose on the macro game....

On August 23 2010 10:14 threehundred wrote:
.... it's like giving a gun to a 12 year old vs a trained swordsman. swordsman will probably die in a head on fight.

On August 23 2010 12:05 PrinceXizor wrote:


I think i get further than most people using infestors since they are so cost effective and you can hold off a couple pushes after but they can transition to marine mech easily, but i feel like right out of reapers you need to have infestors to defend and then double expand to even have a shot at coming back, but thats way to difficult to do on most maps. i won one game on Metal because i was able to double expand afterwards, but haven't won since. I'm thinking instead of going for the recovery from the attack get infestors and maybe baneling or muta and harrass and take down his expo and economy a bit, infestors can stall with lings vs any push against you while you try to 2 base muta (all drones on gas at the expo) and harrass. haven't been too successful but It FEELS like it can work when you are doing it. i'm not very good with mutas though. It just seems like it takes too many larva to stop reapers, maybe more spines? or banelings. banelings take minimal damage from reapers and once they get lair they can catch reapers on creep.

it kind of makes me sad, because i had just developed a build that won me almost all of my ZvT vs standard mech or bio.

On August 23 2010 12:14 roofs wrote:
Has anyone experimented with speedlings -> +1 carapace?

Normally lings die in 2 reaper shots, [(4+5)x2=18] as lings have 35 life. But having the plus 1 carapace reduces the damage to [(4+4)x2=16], which means 3 shots a kill.

Just an idea, haven't tried it out. I'd assume the drawback is that you're behind on getting out mutalisks, but it seems like it would change the outcome of most battles as reapers would end up overkilling. Seems like it'd help with surviving out till mid-game.

On August 23 2010 10:09 PrinceXizor wrote:

Well when you fast lair, it takes 80 seconds after your spawn pool finishes to get lair, 50 seconds for Infestor pit and then 80 seconds to get an infestor with pathogens active out. so 3:10 game time AFTER the pool finishes you have your infestors, now except against 10 rax reaper, the reapers come out slow enough that you are able to fend off with lings and a spine (as well as speed and micro once the 3 4th 5th rax come out) typically it's a uphill battle until the infestor pops, you fungal the reapers and they are all super weak(so that the next infestor can kill, or lings can surround). Regardless as little as a 200/200 investment (4 reapers) forces a zerg onto 1 base no matter what for about 8 minutes (6:45 or 7 minutes with fast lair muta, 6:20-6:30 with fast lair infestor).

so damage is done, but at least infestor tech helps with the follow through (both hellion or marine marauder ect.)