[D] The New Morrow Opening (spoilers) - Page 6

On August 23 2010 17:30 Lighioana wrote:
Why no spine crawlers? When I see reaper or helion harass I usually make 2 spine crawlers and holds all the time. Of course, I'm low level diamond, so it's quite debatable whether it's the way to go or not.

Oh, and before someone say that spines get raped by mass reapers, it's just a matter of where you place them. And that is behind the hatchery. If they get in to get the kill on the spine you block retreat with speedlings.

On August 25 2010 04:47 john0507 wrote:
Reapers aren't the issue , they aren't imba by any means , just simply a good starting unit.
The problem lies with zerg , the reaper opening won't work against ANY other Race due to the T1 units the other 2 Races have (Rines/Marauders/Stalkers) fair relatively well against reapers due to range.
Then take a look at what T1 units Zerg has with decent range ... absolutely nothing.
Hence there is no Hard counter , or even soft counter for the Reaper Opening, even at best if you micro perfectly you are just able to even out , which ends in you surviving and not losing econ , and him getting a "free" expansion and transitioning perfectly into a BioMech Mid/Late game, Which IMO , favours Terran more.

On August 25 2010 17:52 Dreaming11 wrote:
I beat this twice yesterday with 5 roach rush. I'm by no means great, but I felt I was able to handle it easily. The transition to marauders happens just as my speedlings start arriving at his base too, and then I'm in his base, with 2 hatcheries rallied just pumping out speedlings until the GG comes.

I think a viable counter would have been for in those 2 games, for the people I was playing against to instead of confronting my roaches with reapers, send them to my base and just ruin my eco and try and bunker up around command centre, a base race as it were. But he had only two / three by the time my roaches got there, was easy pickings.

This would be even more effective if reapers become 2 supply (which doesn't seem so unreasonable to me at least), because you take out the supply depot at his ramp first and instantly supply block him. I'm not a pro, but I'm just saying for me, at my level, it worked. At higher levels it might be difficult keeping them alive vs good reaper micro, but 5 roaches is scary for the terran when he has just a few reapers, and an extra 10 speedlings arrive within 10 - 15s which makes it 10x easier to close them down and then go to work on the tech labs (my preferred targets atm to stop reapers / marauders popping ASAP, but maybe more effective to go straight for the workers?).

On August 25 2010 20:12 Ouga wrote:
I have beat some 1k point terrans who are trying to mimic this. It still feels so much harder for me, and I know I probably would've lost if opponents had any faking in them. It requires you to morph almost only lings if he has more than 1rax reaper, and takes all scouting possibilities out. If instead of 1-3-5rax reaper he chooses to switch after 2rax to banshees, you're screwed. I think idra had the best possible reaction to this in IEM - ~21hat after speed on the way, warren ready when lair up, instant speed on roaches while scouting with overseer. This can counter some of the followups, but you'll still lose against some. It's still razorthin if you can even beat banshee followup with this since you'll need to instantly start +2queens and new overseer to have any chance.

Also I don't think terrans understand how idioticly thin the larva decisions can be early. It seriously is so bad that @ 10ling 20drone your decision to make +2drone instead of +4lings can lose you the game, as it can other way around. There's numerous timings for terran to win this game early on, but he's never absolutely set to lose if he fails the harrass. That's what I kinda hate in playing zvt the most - zerg can't afford to lose any big fights pre-ultras. If terran microes well and gets some good tank shots to banes, and ends up losing very few marines, he can almost always just stim run to your base and destroy everything. But if zerg destroys everything, sure he gets advantage, but he can never still touch even T's nat due to awesome clifftanks. There are so many things I hate about the matchup, but I know if terrans' capabilities were reduced a little bit it'd give so much extra room for opposing races. I know they aren't doing this, but let's assume they removed cloak research from banshees. This would change tvp and tvz TONS for right direction. It's something you can't scout, but you'll lose against if you didn't go ~fast lair/robo. I for one would like a chance to play zvt without fast lair, fast roach, fast spling, fast overseer, fast spire for once. There's just no resources to make those damn drones when it seems you have to get ready for everything at once.

On August 25 2010 17:28 Marke wrote:
I respect morrow for winning this tournament for sure, But look at the facts...

Mass Tier1 from one base is way to easy to win vs any builds for zerg really.
Remove Mules and Reaper Siege dmg?

On August 25 2010 17:28 Marke wrote:
But look at the facts...

...Remove Mules and Reaper Siege dmg?

On August 25 2010 17:28 Marke wrote:
...facts...

...Remove Mules...

On August 25 2010 17:28 Marke wrote:
I respect morrow for winning this tournament for sure, But look at the facts...

Mass Tier1 from one base is way to easy to win vs any builds for zerg really.
Remove Mules and Reaper Siege dmg?