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[G] Gnial's PvT Stalker-Void Ray Strategy - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 03 2010 05:25 GMT
#41
As others have pointed out, going pure stalker early leaves you vulnerable to aggressive marauder pushes. I think that that the safer bet is to get a zealot as your first or second unit (depending upon whether you build a stalker first) and proceed to develop a fairly even ratio of stalker/zealot. This will free up your gas for an earlier void ray and make you impervious to any rush other than some crazy marine rush. The downside is that your stalker pressure will be delayed or less effective. The upside is that you'll have a fairly nasty force that can break and exploit the Terran front more easily than stalker/void ray.

Great write-up.
iokke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 06:13:17
August 03 2010 06:09 GMT
#42
Amazing post, thank you for great quality. I've been doing DTs to harass/contain into own expo, but only out of desperation. This seems like a much better and more well-rounded strategy
Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time
Rarak
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia631 Posts
August 03 2010 11:13 GMT
#43
Nice strat. Tried it twice today and caught the terran with their pants down twice - building reapers and marines. By the time one of them could get marauders out my 4 stalkers overwhelmed him. Didnt even need voids in the end.

Im only low diamond and both op's were plat.
vol_
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1608 Posts
August 03 2010 14:54 GMT
#44
I have been using a similar build researching warp gate after the 1st 2 stalkers then going stargate. I drop a pylon at the front and contain them with stalker/vr till I have my expansion up.
Jaedong gives me a deep resonance.
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
August 03 2010 14:59 GMT
#45
Ive done the 1 gate version as standard almost every pvt but ive never seen the 2 gate version before

At what point do you get your stargate though? after your 4th stalker? right after your second one?

With the 1 gate version i get it asap after i build my first stalker and voiray usually comes in time to beat down any marauder rushes
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
August 03 2010 15:13 GMT
#46
Could one safely get a forge for +1, and place down cannons at your bnase if they are going banshees? The 2 stalker sacrifice might be worth it.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
August 03 2010 15:17 GMT
#47
Fantastic guide, thanks so much
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Zaphid
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1860 Posts
August 03 2010 15:37 GMT
#48
I have just tried it against 3rax medivac push.The micro requirements definitely take some time getting used to, if you screw up and lose first VR or even a few stalkers, you will die pretty quickly. Seems like rushing storm after your expo finishes is probably the best bet, I was never able to stop MMM+ghost push after I pulled back with only gateway units.
I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 22:39:28
August 03 2010 15:59 GMT
#49
Thanks for updating regarding marine-ghost. I don't think stalker-void ray counters marine-ghost; it just comes down to a control battle. If T outplays P, he'll be able to use 5 marines to keep the void ray at bay, start an expo in his base, EMP the sentries to push down his ramp, and get his expansion up before P. If P outplays T, he'll be able to pick off marines and abuse shield regen, damage the wall-in, spread his units to prevent EMP from robbing his forcefields, and keep T contained long enough that P gets his expo up first.

There are a few things that I do think will beat this build straight up. The 6 barracks mass marine cheese will straight up kill this build because it will hit when you only have 2 gateways. But that build can be scouted and responded to by a player who knows about it.

The one I'd really be concerned about is a marine-tank push that sets out before siege research. The unsieged tank prevents stalker kiting and the marines are stronger than stalkers in a battle w/o micro. I haven't run into this build because T rarely seems to be aggressive with tanks early, but I'm pretty sure that won't last.
Crosswind
Profile Joined May 2010
United States279 Posts
August 03 2010 16:19 GMT
#50
Stupid question:

Why keep building stalkers after the first two?

First two suffice to do a fast poke and help Terran over-commit. After that, it seems like you're better off with a balanced mix - mostly zealot/sentry, with your two initial stalkers. Consider that making your next two units zealots speeds up your stargate, and gets your void ray out quicker. Getting a sentry shortly thereafter can make you a double-threat at the terran ramp; anything that comes out to kill the void ray may get force-fielded out and killed. Best case, FF prevents things from hitting the void ray until it's fully charged anyways.

I only ask because the standard Terran thing to do is a bigass mixed bio-ball. Stimmed marines can make life trouble for void rays, but mostly, the Terran army is just going to whoop on your original army if you can't convince him to stay in his base and get harassed. Switching to zealot/sentry gives you a much better chance of dealing well with his army, I think.

Thoughts?

-Cross
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 03 2010 16:28 GMT
#51
On August 04 2010 01:19 Crosswind wrote:
Stupid question:

Why keep building stalkers after the first two?

First two suffice to do a fast poke and help Terran over-commit. After that, it seems like you're better off with a balanced mix - mostly zealot/sentry, with your two initial stalkers. Consider that making your next two units zealots speeds up your stargate, and gets your void ray out quicker. Getting a sentry shortly thereafter can make you a double-threat at the terran ramp; anything that comes out to kill the void ray may get force-fielded out and killed. Best case, FF prevents things from hitting the void ray until it's fully charged anyways.

I only ask because the standard Terran thing to do is a bigass mixed bio-ball. Stimmed marines can make life trouble for void rays, but mostly, the Terran army is just going to whoop on your original army if you can't convince him to stay in his base and get harassed. Switching to zealot/sentry gives you a much better chance of dealing well with his army, I think.

Thoughts?

-Cross


I personally prefer the mixed the force rather than pure stalkers. If you catch the terran in his base with only marauders when your void ray arrives, it doesn't really matter. However, a lot of times you'll have to deal with a terran bio push, and you'll want a better-mixed gateway unit composition to deal with it. Getting some zealots also allows a faster void ray.

Whether you build more than 2 stalkers is going to depend upon the map and how you want to use your void ray(s). If you want to just poke and harass the terran with your void ray to keep him penned up, you'll want more stalkers to abuse his front door. If you're actually thinking about busting his front door down, you'll want some zealots to exploit the breach and help take down marines.
AnodyneSea
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Jamaica757 Posts
August 03 2010 16:45 GMT
#52
props to a great post man
Lost within the hope of freedom, not for control but in the light of our cause
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 16:55:07
August 03 2010 16:53 GMT
#53
I tried this build now too and it is very good in winning in 8-12 minutes. I just have problems with the transition.

What do you think about transition into carriers? You are already in this tech tree and can get carriers way faster then storm or collossi. So the transition would look like:

-The usual until expansion
-Build robo for detection
-Build fleet beacon for carriers

Push with 3-4 carriers, 2-3 void rays (from the beginning) and 4-warpgate-army?
Mothership ftw?

Sounds like a good build to me, what do you think?
NesTea <3
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 17:07:54
August 03 2010 17:00 GMT
#54
On August 04 2010 01:53 TehForce wrote:
I tried this build now too and it is very good in winning in 8-12 minutes. I just have problems with the transition.

What do you think about transition into carriers? You are already in this tech tree and can get carriers way faster then storm or collossi. So the transition would look like:

-The usual until expansion
-Build robo for detection
-Build fleet beacon for carriers

Push with 3-4 carriers, 2-3 void rays (from the beginning) and 4-warpgate-army?
Mothership ftw?

Sounds like a good build to me, what do you think?


They're probably going to react to your Void Rays with some Vikings floating about ready to gun them down and Marines to protect his ground army as it advances. If he then scans and spots you pumping Carriers (you can tell what unit is coming out of that thing from the shape of the blue stuff) he's just going to react with even more Vikings and Marines.

Not sure how well Carriers do against Vikings (I presume something like 3:1, which is about even in cost, since they have equal range and the Carriers can unload a hell of a lot of front-ended damage), but Marines will just disarm the crap out of them. Interceptors are incredibly squishy now. You can't even build a good Zealot force to compliment the Carriers from excess resources, because the end-cost is something like 550 (or 450? Do they start with 4 Interceptors now?) minerals and 250 gas for a single Carrier.

Normally the only safe transitions after a failed air assault, is a strong ground force. Mutas beget Phoenixes, which get raped by Hydras. Void Rays beget Vikings and Marines which get raped by Psi Storm. Banshees beget Void Rays or Phoenixes which get raped by Marines.
GunsOfPatriots
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3 Posts
August 03 2010 17:14 GMT
#55
O.O this freak me out as a terran player, maybe i should spend some serious thinking in switching race.
You haven't even taken the safety off, rookie.
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
August 03 2010 17:20 GMT
#56
That game against the 670 diamond he really did not respond very well, if he had built a viking before his medivac(he had already seen the VR at this point so it was silly not to) or used all of his marines to fight the 2 void rays instead of leaving 2 idle I think you are losing that game at that point. He had you outeconned and a bigger army, he just made a couple bad choices.

As a Terran player it is definitely something I'll keep my eye out for though .
Crosswind
Profile Joined May 2010
United States279 Posts
August 03 2010 17:28 GMT
#57
I think the clear transition is up the templar line.

Charge and Blink are both excellent. If you're sitting as his entrance, blink (with void rays giving vision) gives a way to pull him away from his front. If you're still fighting over map control, chargelots are pretty dominant in open ground. Finish with high templars (if he built a lot of missile turrets), or dark templars (if he didn't).

Robo tech just seems sub-par. Colossi and immortals die to the same things that counter void rays (vikings and marines). So do carriers.

Meanwhile, HTs just ball against about 90% of terran units. The only terran units that don't have energy for delicious feedback get crushed by void rays or annihilated by psi-storm.

-Cross
Mnijykmirl
Profile Joined February 2010
United States299 Posts
August 03 2010 17:48 GMT
#58
On August 04 2010 02:14 GunsOfPatriots wrote:
O.O this freak me out as a terran player, maybe i should spend some serious thinking in switching race.


You shouldn't worry about it. I'm getting pretty convinced that any Protoss 1 base semi-all in aggression against Terran is doomed to fail in the long run.
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
August 03 2010 17:49 GMT
#59
Great post, will be watching replays and trying this out myself.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
t3tsubo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada682 Posts
August 03 2010 18:04 GMT
#60
quality post! I will try this is I am confident enough in my micro to control this properly while still macroing. It seems physically demanding for a max 100 apm player.

Do you have any tips on how to micro stalkers effectively against terran? For example, what do you prioritize for attacking?
I'm thinking: lone marauder > scv building a building > marine > scv repairing > supply depot
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