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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
Sheth: I've found that at the higher level most people are still struggling with the midgame and there's a lot of opinions and not a lot of concrete arguments yet. Openings and earlygame strategy are very beneficial to the average player, but I'm really interested in how you approach midgame. Any ETA on a section regarding that? I support this. There have been a lot of stuff about zergs early game, but nothing on mid or even lategame. | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
StrinterN -- Thanks. savysmith -- Glad you found some things beneficial in the guide. Zergling and zealot micro is very tricky. Also very tricky to try and explain. The best advice I can give you is to try and finish off zealots. If they live to run away and regain shields they can be very powerful. So its important that if you attack you don't lose zerglings at the cost of easily regenerable shields. Theres more I could say, but I need to work on other stuff right now. FaZe -- Thanks. KiwiKaki -- we're pro. =) Alou -- Good question. Roaches have possibilities for offense and defense. However versus just a 2gate early push I like to defend with queens and zerglings. That way you can do quick pressure, roach is kind of a slow ominous pressure. There are times when roaches are good, like to throw off an opponent or keep him inside of his base or simply to kill his rushing zealots if you don't like zergling micro. I'm just not a big fan of them! :D Blade -- Yea... I keep working on it and then coming here to respond to posts. Typing large response posts also drains my writing moivation lol. So I'm working on it! (have 4 pages of it done on word... just need to clean it up and edit alot...) gromz -- Thanks : ) Darkforce -- What push would I have less resources to defend with? Also I assure you this build puts pressure on the protoss! Zerglings with speed and a threat of banelings early on if they fast expoed. It can definetly have a threat :D ret -- I know right? I keep wanting to do homework or guide work and I just keep reading O.O Faust -- Haha I'll try and stay back so you can know where I'm at :D Piski -- Negatory. (At your second post, yeah I'm working on it! :p Would help to have beta back) Floop -- Right now the ETA is I'm kind of waiting to discuss my guide and ZvT in general with several other zergs. I'm also replying to a lot of stuff in this thread + ofc real life. So I'd say sometime within 3-4 days... (I hope!) Catz, Incontrol, Everytime, Waffles -- Dance off to the death 10PM meet me at Iceland. | ||
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doss
Canada137 Posts
Easier to mass, much more effective once the coll are dead, but at the risk of being detected by obs. | ||
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December12345
40 Posts
if he's doing ground army, i'd rather buff up, but if he's doing void ray push, i need to get lair really fast for hydras. so seems that i have to sacrifice that overlord every game, but sometimes, it's hard to do that. cause it's so hard to sacrifice the overlord every game... seems that i'll need to always go for some sort of timing push with zerglings/roach, so during the attack, i can get some scouting info? | ||
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shutdown_exploded
United States133 Posts
On July 05 2010 03:09 doss wrote: Are tunneling claw roaches a better way to deal with collosus than corruptors? Easier to mass, much more effective once the coll are dead, but at the risk of being detected by obs. if they have colossus, they've already got the robo (and even if they rushed to col) they still probably built an observer while the support bay was going down. unless you see they rushed colossus and have 1 immortal in which case... go for it? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
@catz: Dude listen: You were acting like a dick. If you apologized and felt you explained it then lick your wounds and move off. Randomly dropping some incident out of nowhere as some kind of attack on me is so completely immature and random I almost don't even know how to respond? There is going to be changes in the Sc2 forum very soon. Consider it fair warning from me that I am telling you guys that it will no longer be OK to tell someone they have a lesser opinion or that they have no right contributing when they aren't a platinum this, diamond that or a ITL champ etc. If they are giving effort to contribute they deserve that respect. If they are being an idiot TL will root them out as usual. Btw this isn't an argument. It is me stating that bad things have been happening and they need to change. Attacking me or telling me to "calm down" won't make these things any less true. | ||
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ROOTCatZ
Peru1226 Posts
On July 05 2010 05:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: @skyfive: wtf? "stoop to their level" a guy was waving his dick around and I said it has to stop.. it's a recognized problem on the forum I am a "old member" of.. so who exactly are you to condemn me for that? What context? I mean you literally laid out the context for WHY I would be disgruntled.. and it isn't really a shocker. @catz: Dude listen: You were acting like a dick. If you apologized and felt you explained it then lick your wounds and move off. Randomly dropping some incident out of nowhere as some kind of attack on me is so completely immature and random I almost don't even know how to respond? There is going to be changes in the Sc2 forum very soon. Consider it fair warning from me that I am telling you guys that it will no longer be OK to tell someone they have a lesser opinion or that they have no right contributing when they aren't a platinum this, diamond that or a ITL champ etc. If they are giving effort to contribute they deserve that respect. If they are being an idiot TL will root them out as usual. Btw this isn't an argument. It is me stating that bad things have been happening and they need to change. Attacking me or telling me to "calm down" won't make these things any less true. I completely agree with you a hundred percent, I acted like a dick and apologized for it, we're clear on that. What you consider a "random attack" is just a prime example of why I don't think you're the right person to ask me not to act like a dick, that's all. Thanks for the fair warnings, now with your blessing, ima 'lick my wounds and move off'. edit: really sorry about all this Shawny <3  (and everyone else) | ||
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
I would organise it a bit better into spoilers though, and add a build counter section (which build is a.. "counter" to another build, etc) otherwise, great post =D | ||
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pencilcase
United States330 Posts
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Naraka
Canada21 Posts
I was tossing around the idea of possibly having an additional queen or two bringing my total up to 4 for additional ranged support behind the zerglings. The queens are also not particularly vulnerable to the stalker fire unlike roaches. Their damage is also comparable to that of the roach and they don't cost any gas, allowing for a more smooth transition into hydra. Of course, this is all pretty much theory right now.  | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
On June 30 2010 14:46 Drazzzt wrote: Thanks for your answer, I like your style of answering to all ppl in the thread btw. GJ. It definitely becomes easier and I sometimes even tried 12 pool to be even more safe, but against very good zeal micro I still have a hard time. Probably my ling micro isnt top notch, but I have to say that compared to SC1 I find it kinda annoying that your lings after popping out are on attack-move towards the rally point (or is there a way to avoid this?). So, if you don't look very closely at your 2nd hatch, your lings tend to sacrifice themselves in no-time against the zeals bashing your hatch (and good protoss move their zeals right to your eggs while hatch-bashing in order to get several hits before you can move the lings away). Using your queen is very dangerous as the zeals come so earlier that you dont have much creep and queens are so awfully slow and die so fast to zeals. Later its getting a little better. One game I lost because the protoss added 3-4 probes to his attacking zeals which is really hardcore. I should've probably just cancelled the hatch as pulling probes costs quite a lot of minerals, but I am not sure. So, this is the reason why I experimented with roach openings in the end expanding only at around 30 supply after having 3-5 roaches (depending on what I scout). At least against 2-gate openings. Protoss has to be very careful then, because I can add a lot of roaches very fast and without cannons he can be in trouble soon. So, when protoss fast-expands and adds cannons you have enough time to pump pure drones later on which will lead to a slight income advantage. Funny, the new changes exactly dealt with the problems that I mentioned above. Longer Zealot build time and move-rally instead of attack-really. So, your opening might become more viable now at closer distances, Sheth :-). (unfortunately, I am EU not US, so I couldnt test it) | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
With the recent zealotnerf u cant 2gate anymore and as Zerg I double steal gas to force the toss to build zealots and go onebase roach(skipping lings) into gg  | ||
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Anzat
United States90 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
 !I was a little skeptical whether the build was actually effective, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I typically prefer the idra-style build where you're looking to get lings and a quicker expo. I just have the timing memorized to get my 2nd queen out exactly when the 2nd spawn larvae & my natural hatchery is up. I have been having trouble with those pesky zealot opening builds since the beta came back, so this might help | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
I don't think extractor + 100 gas for ling speed so early is required to hold of early zealots, and that you can do fine with just zerglings + queen, waiting to build your 1st extractor until after you start your expansion (I usually do it around 19-20 supply). I'm not suggesting you change your pool timing (I also do 13 pool), just to wait longer to get gas. I feel that it slows down your 2base economy by a lot to get gas so early; and really, the whole point of going FE is to get 2 saturated bases as quickly as possible. However you are definitely a better player than me, so I'll just ask: have you had any experience with waiting until after starting your expo before getting gas? Are you able to hold off aggressive zealots? | ||
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
On smaller maps i go 14 gas 13 pool but if they go 2 gate i am still having a hard time dealing with it. What should i do? When should i take my natural? I know i need roaches but do i build the roach waren right after the pool or what? Thank you in advance. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
P just kills me so fast with FF. I think there is something wrong with FF. | ||
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