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Thanks for writing this guide Sheth! Really helped me out as I started learning to play zerg, and the speedling expand build is starting to become one of my favs in the ZvP matchup.
One problem I'm seeming to have though in the ZvP though is deciding how many spine crawlers will be necessary to defend against the early timing push, and if 4 queens is too many as well. Any good way to tell how many queens/spines are necessary? (I'm usually able to scout the 4-gate or 3-gate pushes, but never too sure how spines I need, same problem with queens).
Also, was just wondering about neural parasite/infestors in general against mech, and if they'd do well against it.
Again, thanks for the great guide!
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On July 24 2010 06:24 XdsZmX wrote:
Thanks for writing this guide Sheth! Really helped me out as I started learning to play zerg, and the speedling expand build is starting to become one of my favs in the ZvP matchup.
One problem I'm seeming to have though in the ZvP though is deciding how many spine crawlers will be necessary to defend against the early timing push, and if 4 queens is too many as well. Any good way to tell how many queens/spines are necessary? (I'm usually able to scout the 4-gate or 3-gate pushes, but never too sure how spines I need, same problem with queens).
Also, was just wondering about neural parasite/infestors in general against mech, and if they'd do well against it.
Again, thanks for the great guide!
Usually 3 spines + lings are enough to delay the push until hydralisk come out. Remember to get more than a few lings though. And try to scout his unit combo.
That's at least how I deal with it. But I don't like roaches so maybe someone knows this better than men. I just like to punish the protoss players after his failed push.
If you have lost to 4gate pushes you just should watch the replays and think how many sunken's would be needed to defend.
But I'm guessing you want an answer from Sheth so lets see what he will answer 
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Great guide Sheth, it's very appreciated!
I would love to hear your opinions or see any replays how you deal with Mech terran players, i'm trying to abuse the fact that they lack mobility (By using Nydus worms and Muta harass mostly, but the main problem is that they often camp in their base, and that usually prevents these harasses from doing enough damage). I usually end up being either contained or losing to their "slow forward push", since all my direct battles with a strong mech army seems to fail. I seem to lose before i can include a large number of high tech units into my army, in most of the games. 
(Any ideas how to break a tank contain, or somehow stop or delay the slow mech crawling :D? Does anyone have any special tricks to deal with a Thor, tank, hellion, viking, marine, marauder mix or how to survive the two situations mentioned above?)
Example replay (Mech contain): http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3661138/ (7 minute mark and beyond)
I'm also having problem with MMM terrans that uses a lot of drop harassment. (Like 1-2 drops at my expansion(s) similary, while also attacking my main with a reasonable force).
(I will try the Zergling, Baneling, Mutalisk style when the game is released, cheers! Any other ideas how to deal with this spesific "heavy drop harass" type of play? I'm having problems to react properly to these harasses, and i usually split my forces to try to win multiple battles at once, even doe i lack the multitasking of controlling more than one battle at a time.)
Example replay (Heavy drop harass): http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3757580/
Tips from anyone is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
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Good post sir
Agreed with most of your points on here, though under tips & tricks the changeling tricks will not work until Blizz has fixed the glitch where changelings no longer change color (always red) to match your opponents color/blend in.
Some good content here for the more beginner/mid-level players, thanks for your efforts 
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United States2095 Posts
Floophead : I'm not adamantly opposed to mutalisks. I even say I use them in end game vs. bio balls! I find them hard to use against any build with thors tho! (However its good to get muta to force the t to get thors, I just didn't want to go into this!) Yes I'm sure hydras are WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY better then just pure roach. Don't know why you would even think that wasn't true! Upgrades are usually +1 carapace then +1 ranged and +2 cara at same time and continued from there. Sometimes +1 /+1 same time. Depends on so many things... Always get hydralisk range late tho!
Bontez: Thanks, let me know how you like it!
Saracen: Thanks Alex! I fixed the typo and I'll probably make a new thread linking to this and a copy on Root gaming's new website! Just wanted to put it up while I'm on vacation for a bit so I'd have something to do. ^_^
Raybasto: Getting either speedlings or roaches early is absolutely nessecary vs. any reaper heavy build. So I recomend putting up alot of spine crawlers and getting roaches instead of just slow lings if you see him going pure reapers. As for early gas, 20 sounds a bout right. As for your second gas, that all depends on your opponents build order.
Blasius: Thanks! Vs. a quick FE my goal is to get a high ammount of drones on my 2 original bases and to get a quick third and go into either muta harass or roach dropship! For your second build order I like speedlings with a few spinecrawlers while I attempt to macro and keep an army growing at the same time.
Shutdown: Somewhat! I don't always sac an overlord, alot of the time sac'ing a ling works or just if you see a fast FE!
XdsZmX: Sooo many speedlings as you slowly tech to hydralisks while putting enough spinecrawlers to wall. Thats how I defend that at least! Also infestors are very bad against pure mech in my experience.... The 12 second nerf made things really complicated, however I havn't fully tested this yet!
Pisky: Thanks, yep that was pretty much my answer too! =)
Infernium: Thanks for asking these questions. I'll post replays that deal with them whenever I get home. I'm on vacation so I don't have replays on this computer. Hopefully I'll get to it soon, but SC2 launch is near, so all bets are off ^^
InfinteIce: Yea hope they fix that glitch soon! It'll still work tho unless they see it on thier screen, generally it takes a few seconds for them to look at the exact area instead of just the minimap! Thanks !
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On July 25 2010 09:19 Sheth wrote:
Blasius: Thanks! Vs. a quick FE my goal is to get a high ammount of drones on my 2 original bases and to get a quick third and go into either muta harass or roach dropship! For your second build order I like speedlings with a few spinecrawlers while I attempt to macro and keep an army growing at the same time.
I've noticed you haven't mentioned banelings at all. Do you ever use banelings? If so, when? Hopefully against something other than pure marine.
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Thanks for the answers Sheth and Piski, must be that my tech is a bit slow, since I do end up with a bit of excessive minerals before I start my lair. Thanks!
Just another question, would you consider getting 4 queens too many for the 13 pool 13 extractor ZvP build? I was thinking it'd be useful for the transfusion and creep tumors.
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Dimaga seems to have great success with baneling bust vs protoss. Would you comment on the usefulness of this?
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I must say, this guide is most impressive. Thanks so much for the effort!
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Shawn, my name isn't Alex lol Hope to see you on B.net
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United States2095 Posts
Daniel! I'm sorry, I for some reason got you mixed up with your friend! Really sorry =(
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Hey, great guide. Although I probably most know of this, it is probably insanely useful for lower ranked players. Anyway I have question, I've been struggling a bit against zeal harrass into FE with a bunch of cannons into quite big gateway army+4 or 6 collosi.(on 2 bases) It's somewhat timing attack, (it comes before I can get enough corruptors and ground army or t3) I've tried many things, it seems hard to counter. My general unit composition is ling+roach+hydra, depending what I see from toss, I adjust balance between them, naturally I builid corruptors to counter collosi.
Even I've heard artosis mentioning he has big problems against it, and idra said he doesn't use corruptors anymore to counter collosi. Yea, I think corruptors kill them to slowly, when collosi are down, my ground units are usually dead.
I've tried roach+hydra 1+attack +1 carapace timing attack just before collosi arrive, it's decent thing but it's pretty close, usually if he didn't trade his early zealots for my lings he manages to survive it. Expanding to 3rd base seems a bit hard, as my army is even weaker than usually. My friend suggested doing like 4 overseers and then contaminate robotics fascility to delay attack, but it's 400 gas which is 8 hydras or 4 corruptors and I doubt if it's good. I thought about massive roach counterattack to stop his FE, but it's allinish and I prefer solid play.
so, dear Sheth, what's your advice about this?
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Excellent write-up. I've been planning to switch from T to Z and this guide has done a great job of putting a lot of information in one place to help make the switch easier.
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great post sheth some of this has really helped improve my openings keep up the good work 
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Wow I can't believe I missed this guide. It is incredibly in depth and I would really like to thank sheth for all the effort he put into this!
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On August 04 2010 13:20 ChoboCop wrote:
Sheth now plays T... o_O
Is this true?
Anyway, awesome guide sheth <3
Gonna try dropping some infestors with my army against T next time to fungal growth them at the bottom of the ramp :D
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very nice guide, keep up the great work <3
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i love your guides, but i hope you put some replays in a near future, i really like to read and then watch reps.
gl & hf for you!!
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EPT
