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United States2095 Posts
Ok Heya everyone! Time to respond to all the questions, Sorry its taken me so long!! I will be posting a ZvZ guide up fairly shortly! My ZvP Guide is getting translated into Japanese! All exciting news for me. If you want to translate this guide into another language please let me know. Thanks and now to the questions!
Bgrizz -- Heyo, I think its a good idea for you to perhaps make roaches for his early aggression. If your both in very close positions its smart to go roaches into speedling or macro depending on the level of aggression. If lings can't hold for you, try roaches, altho lings should be able to hold if you keep making them and save up larva like I say to in the guide!
Peerless -- This is a tricky subject. You must scout your opponent with lings, and keep a ling at all xel'naga towers and one in front of his base. You should continually pump economy for a good part of the early game until you see him move out. It also helps to have 1-2 spine crawlers and a good amount of lings on standby for defense and harass. For your other question, yes thats what u have to do!
Vaporized -- Very good point! Thats very close to what I said, thanks 
Floop -- Good question man! I'm actually really proud of you, please don't take that the wrong way! Honestly a good question man! The best way to do it is to have mutas and an infestor with your army. You can snare his army baneling the marines and run over the rest with mutas. Its one way of doing it, other ways include just using soo many lings and infestors that you surround it. Or just enough roaches / hydralisks that you can simply 1a over his force. I don't recomend hydra / roach.
Ordained -- ♥
Cyprin -- Thanks u.
Bair -- Good question! Does anyone know? Lol! I'll check it out and get back to u!
Math Magician -- I put all of my hatcheries on a different hotkey up to 4 hatcheries. You can't hotkey your creeps, each creep changes hotkey. Search on tl.net for quick injections or something like that and you should find out about backspace.
ahsw -- I'm not sure! You should also check for Zelniq's guide!
.Soul -- Thats the point! Hopefully it will be helpful
Will answer the rest shortly, Have to go coach!
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Thanks for the great guide Sheth!
I'm new to RTS games and decided to choose Zerg as my main race. This has helped a lot with my mid game as that where I was usually falling behind. Also, awesome on getting it translated to Japanese
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What do you think of banelings in ZvP? Any viability whatsoever outside of baneling busts?
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@Sheth: How on earth do you get infestors out in time though? I've discovered that you can just push with 2 tanks and a handful of marines while using ignitor hellions to contain and kill speedlings. You dont' even need stim. That push is so fast that unless you 1 base you only have ling roach baneling to deal with it, and certainly not a significant muta count, maybe 2-3 infestors without energy for a fungal.
It's something I've literally spent all my time since release looking at, and the push is virtually unstoppable. The one thing I think that might work is burrow banelings, but with hellions containing you, I don't see how it's possible to get them in position, much less without being seen where terran just scans and makes them useless.
The worst part is when I push late and am broken, I'm still 2 base to 2 base with a massive eco lead and maybe even a 3rd going up. Aside from losing to an allin counter (which has happened like... twice ever?) I don't see how I lose. I'm not trying to brag at all, cause I'm mechanically inferior to many players, but I just don't seem to lose consistently to anything with this.
Oh and usually the counter to early contains in BW was to turtle with crawlers and send mutas or drop lurkers behind the lines and kill T's eco and force him back or into an allin that he likely won't win. However, what can you drop that actually would do anything without leaving yourself open to 1a wins? Mutas aren't viable because 25s turrets which can kill like 8 mutas with repair are OP.
Honestly, I'm conceding that TvZ is T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Z. It's that bad.
I'd like to play a few games vs you at some point if you want to see what I'm talking about. I feel so bad for zergs after playing a few dozen practice games. It's not even remotely fair.
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Hey Sheth, I checked it out, and casting fungal growth on workers did not cause any kind of alarm.
Just an idea here, but sneaking 2 infestors into an enemy base, and tossing a dozen or two zerglings at their front door (just a distraction) could let you kill all their workers with FG rather easily and leave them wondering what the hell happened.
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Thanks! This is by far the best guide!!!
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Thank you so much for this sheth! This helped me out a lot, as I have played perhaps about 30 games with zerg and needed some solid guide like this one
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Hey Sheth, what do you do if there is a reaper hopping up and down the high ground at your natural. I send speedlings, he jumps up the cliff, I pull back so he can't shoot them from the high ground. He comes down, attacks my expo, send my lings, jumps back up, I pull lings back, he comes back down, etc.
I first thought queens, but it seems that queens will die if there are enough reapers.
Spine crawlers seem to be a bit hard to get since I just spent money on speedlings, and an expo.
So should I prioritize getting a spine crawler by the cliff, and have an overlord give sight, or get spine crawler after a couple of speedlings?
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Great read, thanks alot for the effort. I play Random and find ZvT one of the hardest matchups
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Hey Sheth,
I like your guide a lot, thx for the work.
I still have some questions, as i am kinda new to Z, switched from Protoss (650+ Diamond) just a few days ago to practice some more macro heavy games.
First question: Most replays i see you playing vs P (I didn't find a lot though) i do not see you getting the early gas (same time as pool), mostly you go for expansion/pool at the same time with added gas later. Are there some special reasons (Map, Lucky Ovi Scout early on so you know positions, etc.) for that?
Second and bigger question:
I have some fellow I'm practicing with (hes P, i guess nearly equally skilled) and i just can't find a way to properly cope with his fast blink stalkers. He completely blocks the choke with GW and Cybcore with a pylon in the middle to avoid busts and goes for blink and mass stalkers coupled with 1 observer to gain uphill vision. He enters with 6-8 Blink stalkers right before the first hydras are about to pop and he keeps adding those stalkers from 3+ gateways. He Avoids fighting anywhere on creep besides edges so he has a safe way out against speedlings. Spines do not help as he just blinks to wherever spines can't reach him. Then he either kills my buildings or my army, depending on my decision to fight or wait. I can barely add more hydras then he adds stalkers on 2 extractors that i have at that point of time and the speedlings don't really make any difference (well that's my biased view after losing 10 games against that). Creep tumors don't work too well for me as i don't have time to spam a lot of them and he keeps destroying them with the observer. I can give you some replay of that if you want to.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
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Thank you for the excellent work, got plenty to practice now 
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Thanks for the guide, I'm thinking of playing Zerg for a bit to better understand it. One thing I never see in ZvT (except I believe I saw TLO do it once) is exploiting vulnerabilities of the reactor-switch hellion harass. There's a huge vulnerability where when you lift your factory and your rax to swap positions, you only have either 0 or 1 marine, and zerglings can do a run-in, kill the marine, and run around under the buildings, keeping them from landing. I don't see many Z players exploit this weakness, probably because it does take a lot of micro and attention. Is there a reason this hasn't caught on? I feel like it's a huge opportunity that no Z players attempt to exploit.
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Canada239 Posts
Great guide, but im still having problem with 2 gate openings.
I feel that if they get alot of zealots, I have to get roaches and when i try to counter push them they already have cannons set up. This leaves my behind for my expo while the protoss economy is ahead of mine. Any tips is appreciated.
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One of the most important things is to remove the drones from gas if you have 100 for speed.
There are so many people not doing it and just piling up their gas.
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Sheth - Hero - thanks a ton!
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Thank you, there are no words to describe my feelings for the help I get by this guide. I'm a mid level platinum player and I often struggle because I just can't decide which way I want to go. Can't wait for you to finish this guide so I can keep on improving my play and get promoted to diamond
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On August 16 2010 06:00 Neelson wrote:Thank you, there are no words to describe my feelings for the help I get by this guide. I'm a mid level platinum player and I often struggle because I just can't decide which way I want to go. Can't wait for you to finish this guide so I can keep on improving my play and get promoted to diamond
i would like to do the same.mid level diamond here 
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Nice guide, Sheth!
Recently I've been having problems against Protoss players that wall-in their expansion (especially on maps like Lost Temple where it's so easy). I usually try for a quick tech speedling/roach drop or nydus, but if they have even just two well-placed cannons in their main, I can't break their defenses (by the time I get drop capabilities they have a decent number of stalkers).
I'm debating whether to try to take three expansions or try to match their economy with two, and out-tech them. I'm a rank 1 platinum with hopes of being in Diamond soon...
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How do i stop a Protoss playing like this (on LT it works best for Protoss):
He goes 2 Gate into Expo (Gates put before his natural)... If i fast expand i will lose the Expansion (it's not even a contest)..
So i go Roaches (14/14 Gas-Pool -> 6 Lings/Speed -> Roach Warren, first "spawn larva goes into 5 Roaches) --> Expansion. Killing him is not possible, he will have gotten a forge and puts 2 Cannons (one on the high cliff, one in his "wall") and expands then.
Now i get my eco going, grab a third.. everything no problem.
He pushes out with 3-4 Colossi and I roll over and die no matter if i went Muta/Ling, Hydra/Roach with some Corruptors... bah. Doesn't even matter.
If i goe T3 he attacks to early for it to matter.
I lose every friggin time against every friggin Toss that does a build like this... (seriously, if i hear 1 time more the famous: "Just get 5 Corruptors" i'm gonna smack someone)... I got no big problems with 4 Gate, Templar builds, Voidrays and all this stuff... But this.. Makes me angry... I feel totally helpless against it except i'm way better than my opponent and even then it's a pain in the ass.
I actually rather play against Terran than against this Bullshit.
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EPT
