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On May 20 2010 17:26 hellz.atalvez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 14:31 Luddite wrote:
before trying anything fancy like fast ghosts, I'd really recommend just building more marines. The problem with mass marine is that voids can run in snipe a marine take 0 damage to hp while the shields suck it up regen for 20sec and run in and do it till you're dead all the while stopping your expo and opening up their's... ghosts cut the shields down and either a) force the rays to back off b) destroy them opening up your expo or even a counter push depending on the situation
I think the OP was mainly just talking about how to defend against early void rushes though, so there's only 1 or 2 void rays, and there's no way to get ghosts out fast enough unless you really rush them.
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On May 20 2010 18:24 Luddite wrote:
I think the OP was mainly just talking about how to defend against early void rushes though, so there's only 1 or 2 void rays, and there's no way to get ghosts out fast enough unless you really rush them.
Terrans should always have 1 ghost in their army in PvT (no matter what strat the Terran is going to). And ghost can be tech very quicker than VR, no?
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On May 20 2010 18:34 zephon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 18:24 Luddite wrote:
I think the OP was mainly just talking about how to defend against early void rushes though, so there's only 1 or 2 void rays, and there's no way to get ghosts out fast enough unless you really rush them. Terrans should always have 1 ghost in their army in PvT (no matter what strat the Terran is going to). And ghost can be tech very quicker than VR, no?
For ghost: barracks/tech lab/ghost academy/ghost
for voidray: gateway/cyber/stargate/voidray
I'm pretty sure rushing straight to ghost with only one barracks will get you fucked vs a lot of builds, whereas protoss can usually comfortably go stargate after 1 gate.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 20 2010 18:37 shawabawa wrote:
For ghost: barracks/tech lab/ghost academy/ghost
for voidray: gateway/cyber/stargate/voidray
I'm pretty sure rushing straight to ghost with only one barracks will get you fucked vs a lot of builds, whereas protoss can usually comfortably go stargate after 1 gate.
The difference is that Terran can concurrently add their tech lab and ghost academy, while Gateway/Cyber/Stargate have to be added in succession. Also, the main bottleneck in making ghosts is gas--getting more barracks and pumping marines is very feasible.
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On May 20 2010 18:34 zephon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 18:24 Luddite wrote:
I think the OP was mainly just talking about how to defend against early void rushes though, so there's only 1 or 2 void rays, and there's no way to get ghosts out fast enough unless you really rush them. Terrans should always have 1 ghost in their army in PvT (no matter what strat the Terran is going to). And ghost can be tech very quicker than VR, no?
you CAN, yes. however it's generally not a good idea to be like "gotta get ghosts as fast possible! ghosts are the key!" You'll die to any sort of normal timing attack.
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Well the level at which you are playing, you don't really need the ghost at all, it's more of a nuisance than help when you can't micro. Scout Protoss, when you see void ray opening, have heavy mineral start with just one gas running, build 3-4 rax, one techlab, research stim, build up force 1:3 (mara:marine) + try to get startport for medivacs and do the good old timing push with mmm ball. He'll have voidrays + stalkers most likely and you can tear up through that np (with infantry upgrade + stim). Voidrays aren't that great against mass marines, with target fire and stim just lure them into open, stim up, rush there, gib and laugh. This tactic works very well below platinum, it's both voidray rush counter and your own timing push.
Doing that ghost build is worth once your opponent knows what's he doing, or you are certain that you can transition out of it / execute it properly. Getting ghost academy and ghosts early on is pretty damn expensive and denies early starport.
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Don't build at ledges, spend 550/150 to get 8 marines with stim and u counter void rays.
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day and cauthon gave some good advice in the state of the game 5 podcast.
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On May 20 2010 14:07 NATO wrote:
So everyone yelling at me because they are scared of a void ray nerf... are you suggesting every game vs toss I just fast tech to starport, beacuse every other toss strategy will lose to DDDDD
fixt for truth
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On May 21 2010 01:53 shammythefox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 14:07 NATO wrote:
So everyone yelling at me because they are scared of a void ray nerf... are you suggesting every game vs toss I just fast tech to starport, beacuse every other toss strategy will lose to DDDDD fixt for truth
Haha, I actually agree with this. I think there's a problem in PvT right now, because void ray is almost the only viable strategy. This makes me sad.  Me thinks P could use some buffs in other units, or possibly gateway build time that isn't so ridiculously long.
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On May 20 2010 14:27 NitroN7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 14:21 DuneBug wrote:
uhh it's hard to directly counter void rays with vikings unless you have more of them than they do...
it helps to put a turret down and sit the viking near it, thus the viking can hit the void ray and if they chase the viking they'll get shot at by the turret. And due to reactors, and Vikings being cheaper, AND support from marines, it's very easy to accomplish that.
exactly. void rays (AS CURRENTLY USED) are not a good strategy. they have never worked on the asia server, and after terrans stop crying and start countering it right they will never lose.
i play terran btw.
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I keep hearing that there's an upcoming patch that is going to nerf void rays. As a noob who often gets beat by them, I wouldn't mind that. Heh heh. But is this anything more than an unfounded rumor? Has a blizzard employee mentioned that a void ray nerf is coming?
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"The upcoming patch contains a little tweak to Void Rays that will hopefully make them more vulnerable to microed units, such as Hydras or Vikings.
I just wanted to assure you that we're looking into this and we're monitoring this unit closely."
link
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If you get air superiority with Vikings (Which is possible and even cost effective) then you can use marauders with concussive shell to help kill zealots. The whole key is that you need to kill the vikings first and worry about the ground war later. Typically a toss won't have both the void rays to kill all your vikings and the zealots to kill all your marauders, he'll only have one or the other. You just can't let him have the void rays.
Also don't be afraid to kill zealots with Vikings if you lose the ground war badly, because losing the ground war will get way less of your army and base killed than losing the air war, and don't forget to repair the Vikings.
I wouldn't suggest marines because sentries do so much to help void rays beat marines, especially charged void rays.
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get some marines...get a turret and upgrade the building armor.
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This thread should've ended when somebody posted you link to gretorps strat. have you been using them? results?
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I think the math works out to be about 4 marines + 1 viking = 1 VR (and the VR get totally raped)
It looks like you are opening for a marauder/marine opening early, and then transitioning into Vikings/ general air in the midgame. As Terran, I almost always open with rines off of a reactor, fast tech to ghosts and Vikings, and then back-tech to marauders in the later midgame and push, and I have a nearly 90% win ratio vs. toss.
also, if it makes you feel better, VR's are getting nerfed in the next patch, while rines/rauders are getting buffed because stim is cheaper.
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On May 21 2010 14:51 Cynthedic wrote:
This thread should've ended when somebody posted you link to gretorps strat. have you been using them? results?
This requires a lot of changes to what I do, and my practice partner wanted to try their own things, so I only got to try it to some degree. If there is a good (1400+ plat) player (my current partner is 1700+) willing to help me with this, I would be much appreciative.
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and here goes the 5000st post about void ray whining...
just dont skip marines and you are in perfect shape, because thats the only reason this build even exists. take your expo and an easy win....
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Select Marines and 1A after Patch 13.
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EPT
