EPTHow do you stop void ray as Terran? - Page 2
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:23 Brett wrote: Why did you post a request for advice/help/information like this if you're not going listen to it the advice/help/information you get? Particularly if it's useful given your current outlook... I suggest you re-read the options suggested and re-evaluate your own play. If you want to sit there and wait for a void ray nerf that may not even come, that's your prerogative but its a pretty pointless thread. The smart gamers will be looking for ways to combat it with what they have. They're already doing it. I am simply complaining about the two people who were unhelpful. I am sorry I had not gotten around to thanking those who were. Thanks to everyone who suggested the ghost build again, I am looking into that. It is not helpful to me to just say I am a noob and don't understand the basics of the game. Obviously I am not pro, but I am not 1500+ gold from being a noob as well. I am not suggesting a nerf of any kinda, simply that it seems those responding emotionally (resorting to near-name calling) are scared of such. And to you, thank you for not simply joining in the trolling, but trying to get this conversation back on track. | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:31 Luddite wrote: before trying anything fancy like fast ghosts, I'd really recommend just building more marines. When I initially encountered this, I tried responding with a lot of marines. They all got toasted because of the rays range, shield regen, cliffs, and ample buildings to charge on. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/3220 So after getting completely decimated doing that, I have been trying other things. | ||
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Orangu
Canada198 Posts
in the first game you should have scouted him and known exactly what he was doing as he had 0 units up until like 6-7 mins in, now in this game he actually placed his cannons pretty poorly and you could have killed his workers with like a marine but assuming his base was properly protected there was no need to take the island expansion since against voids its actually much more dangerous than taking your nat and you get your eco boost faster. to deal with the voids you did fine against the initial attack other than using stim a little inappropriately and moving too close to the edge, you can sit back and chill and let him expose his voids before stimming and attacking. I think you did lose this game since you tried to drop him while you didn't know where his voids were which then killed your base, its fine to scout around find them and then send a harassment drop a bit later on or just sit back and expand as he does have map control with so much money into those base destroyers. In the second game on DO i think you just tried to expand too fast on that map, i mean if you can get away with it great but here it obviously backfired, generally i fully expect some sort of air attack so i focus on defending which i do really by just getting a couple rax and constant production of marines and then getting starport with reactor and pump out some vikings and i find i generally have no problem with voids. In fact here is a replay of me vs a P going 2 stargate voids into expand and HTs, now i did lose this game but not to the voids instead mostly due to the fact that i forgot stim and then instead of microing my army during the first fight i was freaking out about how i forgot stim lol, so bad i know. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/5985 | ||
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On May 20 2010 15:03 TangJuice wrote: Hey watched your replays and i noticed a couple things, in the first game you should have scouted him and known exactly what he was doing as he had 0 units up until like 6-7 mins in, now in this game he actually placed his cannons pretty poorly and you could have killed his workers with like a marine but assuming his base was properly protected there was no need to take the island expansion since against voids its actually much more dangerous than taking your nat and you get your eco boost faster. to deal with the voids you did fine against the initial attack other than using stim a little inappropriately and moving too close to the edge, you can sit back and chill and let him expose his voids before stimming and attacking. I think you did lose this game since you tried to drop him while you didn't know where his voids were which then killed your base, its fine to scout around find them and then send a harassment drop a bit later on or just sit back and expand as he does have map control with so much money into those base destroyers. In the second game on DO i think you just tried to expand too fast on that map, i mean if you can get away with it great but here it obviously backfired, generally i fully expect some sort of air attack so i focus on defending which i do really by just getting a couple rax and constant production of marines and then getting starport with reactor and pump out some vikings and i find i generally have no problem with voids. In fact here is a replay of me vs a P going 2 stargate voids into expand and HTs, now i did lose this game but not to the voids instead mostly due to the fact that i forgot stim and then instead of microing my army during the first fight i was freaking out about how i forgot stim lol, so bad i know. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/5985 Hey, thanks so much, that was fairly helpful. I do understand my mistake in the first game - dropping when I didn't know where his voids were. I think I was just so fed up with dealing with them, and I knew I had a bigger army, I just wanted to end it. Can you go more into the details on how I managed the units I did have? I felt like it was still really hard to defend against void rays even though I was building the "direct counter." I feel like I usually have to manage units that are soft countered to make them effective, but direct counters just kinda work on their own (for other cases, obviously to a certain extent). For instance: Should I leave buildings to give me vision, or is that just charge fodder? How far should I keep my marines back when waiting, so I can engage without losing range instantly? When should I stim - when I first see the rays go in? Or maybe wait til he seems committed? Maybe I did something wrong, but on the DO game, I felt like I was getting starport as fast as reasonably possible without going double gas. I think I built fact when the gas was available, and then did the reactor trick to get instant reactor on my starport. Sadly his voids came right when they started producing. Obviously some marines instead of the command center might have helped, but I thought I could get enough vikings fast enough. | ||
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earky
United States87 Posts
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palanq
United States761 Posts
it might be difficult not to lose anything, but you'll probably be okay and perhaps ahead, since VR is pretty expensive. the toss ground army should be weaker than usual after the void rays are fended off, so consider doing some timing push once you have enough marines. at the very least you can force the void rays to come back home to defend, perhaps? | ||
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koppik
United States676 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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Orangu
Canada198 Posts
On May 20 2010 15:14 NATO wrote: Hey, thanks so much, that was fairly helpful. I do understand my mistake in the first game - dropping when I didn't know where his voids were. I think I was just so fed up with dealing with them, and I knew I had a bigger army, I just wanted to end it. Can you go more into the details on how I managed the units I did have? I felt like it was still really hard to defend against void rays even though I was building the "direct counter." I feel like I usually have to manage units that are soft countered to make them effective, but direct counters just kinda work on their own (for other cases, obviously to a certain extent). For instance: Should I leave buildings to give me vision, or is that just charge fodder? How far should I keep my marines back when waiting, so I can engage without losing range instantly? When should I stim - when I first see the rays go in? Or maybe wait til he seems committed? Maybe I did something wrong, but on the DO game, I felt like I was getting starport as fast as reasonably possible without going double gas. I think I built fact when the gas was available, and then did the reactor trick to get instant reactor on my starport. Sadly his voids came right when they started producing. Obviously some marines instead of the command center might have helped, but I thought I could get enough vikings fast enough. Hey, so yah voidrays are a very strong unit so its going to be normal to feel very pressured by them until you get very comfortable defending against them, that being said really just try and feel things out over the course of a lot of games, its very hard to say the exact best way to defend since there are so many variations that are possible right now and then i am by no means an expert and could easily just not know something. As far as i can tell its good to keep your buildings back to leave space for your units to maneuver and not get picked at, keep your marines and vikings in separate control groups and try and keep your vikings in front of your marines scouting around to spot for em and abuse the range advantage if he tries to poke in then if he does attack the vikings pull them back a bit while stimming the marines and attack em, unless the P has good control and attention the voids will follow the vikings into your marines, also try and keep both optimally positioned such that if he wants to attack anything he has to fly over land, now obviously this is not always going to be possible so generally your goal is to take as little damage as possible while keeping at your macro and then picking off the voids when you can, you shouldn't feel like you HAVE to kill off ALL of the voids right as they start attacking you, just chill macro and defend and eventually you will get enough stuff to shut it down completely at which point he will have sunk all this money into voids early on, which is really very costly off of 1 base, and is usually a lead into an expansion where you can attack and kill him with your 2 bases while he is just getting his 2nd up. Now on a map like scrapstation or DO where mass voids could actually work it might be a good idea to get an engbay up and get turrets with the +1 range upgrade and cluster them in groups of 2/3 in key spots in your base along with some marines/vikings to help defend while you push since the ground distance is so long while the air distance is so short between bases on those maps, or you could also just opt to expand a lot while defending and harassing with drops/hellions/reapers if he sticks to mass voids. on pretty much all other maps the ground distance is so short that if he sticks to mass voids just go kill em. | ||
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hellz.atalvez
United States25 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:31 Luddite wrote: before trying anything fancy like fast ghosts, I'd really recommend just building more marines. The problem with mass marine is that voids can run in snipe a marine take 0 damage to hp while the shields suck it up regen for 20sec and run in and do it till you're dead all the while stopping your expo and opening up their's... ghosts cut the shields down and either a) force the rays to back off b) destroy them opening up your expo or even a counter push depending on the situation | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Or you can get 1 starport and get 1 viking and siege before expanding, or you can open ghost marine. | ||
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AJ-
United States316 Posts
Beating VR openings (this is the part that you care about): 1st rax constantly build to 4 rines -> reactor -> continue rine production - i've had some close calls with this but it times well defending 1stargate VR attacks, but i have never defended a 2stargate attack although i don't know if that is possible to do lol (end direct answer) Rest of the build (this part is extra aka you can stop reading) Banshee+cloak to exploit warp and star tech's 0 detection and robo's lack of anti-air. i tech as i mass marine - this usually ends up (1) harassing, keeps the toss in his base making stalkers (2) winning outright or (3) forcing an all in push - (3) sucks but hopefully i have scouted and have added enough bunkers to survive what i see coming Transition into biotank key sidenotes: - i research medivac energy before i go into reactor port and move the factor to the tech lab for tanks or add a rax to it for earlier stim/shields, this is situational - i go heavy on the medivacs+marine because rines do massive damage if they are upgraded and kept alive and tanks eat up the stalkers i've force him to make. MMtank also does fine against anything the toss can throw at you as long as you kept up in macro (tanks for colossi/templar - marines against air/immortals) - you can substitute tanks for marauders if that's easier for you or if you like marauders but i find them to be weak substitutes - (1) tanks hit harder and shoot farther (3) marauders can be exploited by FF+colossi or templars, and (3) tanks and medivacs give you a better balance of resources than MMM so you can scan without having your gas skyrocket Add Ghosts emps always a good choice against toss and easy access to nukes lets you be mobile and devastating if you're too afraid to unseige and lose your position. the eventual ghost+tank combo gives you a devastating 1-2 punch for your fights - this is last because of the i prioritize gas to medivacs and tanks, as i get more bases i can afford this tech but you can make your own build with whatever transitions you want I've had a lot of success with this. Good luck moving up the ladder! | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:07 NATO wrote: So everyone yelling at me because they are scared of a void ray nerf... are you suggesting every game vs toss I just fast tech to starport, and forget the fact that every other strategy will decimate me? Actually, if you watch the latest Day[9] Daily, he talks about how flexible 1rax1fact1port is as an opening, and how it has the flexibility to decently face any build other than fast immortals (and even then, can win with some good micro). | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
For example: 3 vikings with no micro(not even focus fire) beat 2 void rays and 2 of the vikings survive, and the vikings are notably cheaper - 450/225 vs 500/300, have a lower build time and can be double built, so even just vikings rape void rays easily. If you add marines it becomes even worse for the void rays, since they can't take advantage of their range against marines and marines are even more cost effective against them than vikings are, due to being light armored, small and cheap. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
On May 20 2010 17:35 TheYango wrote: Actually, if you watch the latest Day[9] Daily, he talks about how flexible 1rax1fact1port is as an opening, and how it has the flexibility to decently face any build other than fast immortals (and even then, can win with some good micro). You can actually hold immortal with a bunker at your ramp with siege and enough marines. Don't even need to micro ^^ | ||
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
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zephon
France26 Posts
Terrans can build 2 starports with reactors and pump up mass vikings very quickly and actually EMP+microed vikings beats VR very hard. | ||
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