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NATO
United States459 Posts
The toss doesn't even have to hide that they're going voids - I scout it every time, build up marines and vikings and still lose. What do I do? They kill vikings so fast I can't even get my scvs to start repairing. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/5690 http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/5974 Maybe vikings need a better moving shot? They really decelerate a lot when they shoot.  | ||
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
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YoureFired
United States822 Posts
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mrlie3
Canada350 Posts
Just think of it as 2 DTs or 4 Banshees or 6 Mutalisks that you can never ever ever stop, even after proper scouting. -.- I'd say start your build preemptively for anti-VR for now and wait for patch 13... | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
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krowe
United States184 Posts
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mrlie3
Canada350 Posts
On May 20 2010 13:37 krowe wrote: I use gretorp's ghost build, have never been beaten by void ray since. I've tried ghost build as well but it seems toss will switch to mass stalkers once he sees 1 ghost and it doesn't seem to work since you are behind in marauder counts. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
When he did attack, you had 3 marines and 2 marauders. He could have just walked in with his 4 stalkers, and that would have been enough. anyway, don't let the void ray charge, attack it immediately. There was a moment when he let it's charge die, and you had 5 marines, so you could have killed it then, but you let it charge up again before attacking. Don't do that. | ||
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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413 | ||
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
Are you serious? Have you rewatched your own replays? There's massive gaps in your macro and micro in both of these games that have nothing to do with void rays being imbalanced. In fact, in neither game did you really engage with both vikings and marines heavily. The only times you did engage (on scrap station) you: the first time managed to hold them off temporarily, and the second time, attempted to attack 6 or so fully charged vikings with an equal number of vikings and less than 5 marines. That is not how it works. On scrap station, your opponent went forge and built 4 cannons FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. That's a huge mineral gap, you honestly should have finished him off with tank/marine/viking in under 10 minutes. Then, on top of that, you never scouted him for several minutes until you FINALLY scan him and see he's going 2 stargate with a fleet beacon. That either means a)carrier b)mass void rays with upgrade c)mothership. VIKINGS COUNTER ALL 3. Your next move after scouting this was to...build 2 medivacs? You had 2 starports, one with a reactor, and you built medivacs? The reason vikings own mass void rays (to a certain extent) is that you can easily outproduce him and you can have a sizable marine force when he tries to engage your vikings that will tear them to pieces. You had neither. You were never ahead in viking:void ray ratio and only once did you only once had more than 10 marines (interestingly enough, he backed off in this case). Also, the fact that you FE'd that early is totally nonsensical, and you'd get run over by any decent 1 basing toss with pretty much any build he chooses doing that. Sorry for being harsh, but you making statements like "Marines + Viking certainly doesn't work." when there's holes the size of lake michigan in your play is kind of silly. | ||
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GoodCat1
Israel266 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
SCV scouts + scans should tell you a lot of info, even if you don't scan the SG directly. Toss can't afford to go 3gate > SG for VR rush, and unless he spreads out his stuff extremely well you should be able to get an idea of what he is trying to do. There are some times where you aren't able to tell, and in that case you have to play really defense and expect everything. Yes it puts you in a disadvantage, but more often than not you will be able to guess what he is doing and if you defend properly you will usually be ahead. For example, the recent Stats vs Flash game. Did you see how many turrets Flash made when they proved to be useless? He had no choice, and some times you just have to accept that. In SC2 it's a lot easier though, because of how fast you can get an OC. | ||
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hellz.atalvez
United States25 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:07 NATO wrote: So everyone yelling at me because they are scared of a void ray nerf... are you suggesting every game vs toss I just fast tech to starport, and forget the fact that every other strategy will decimate me? Please calm down all they are suggesting is you scout earlier (i recommend around 12/13 supply when ur first rax finishes or early) but please do not act as though the forum-goers are yelling at you when you refuse to accept their advice | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
it helps to put a turret down and sit the viking near it, thus the viking can hit the void ray and if they chase the viking they'll get shot at by the turret. | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:07 NATO wrote: So everyone yelling at me because they are scared of a void ray nerf... are you suggesting every game vs toss I just fast tech to starport, and forget the fact that every other strategy will decimate me? Why did you post a request for advice/help/information like this if you're not going listen to it the advice/help/information you get? Particularly if it's useful given your current outlook... I suggest you re-read the options suggested and re-evaluate your own play. If you want to sit there and wait for a void ray nerf that may not even come, that's your prerogative but its a pretty pointless thread. The smart gamers will be looking for ways to combat it with what they have. They're already doing it. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Have your First rax crank marines non-stop and make it the last one you do an Add-on to. I go off 1 gas to increase mineral return for lots of rines. My push is with +1 and Shield upgrade- that's when I expand. Your push is like 80% Marine 20% Marauder. It's great vs Rays and Immo- the last thing you want to see is a gang of Stalkers, with a few Sentries for Guradian and Zealots. If you see that back off and add Marauders/Tech Labs. | ||
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NitroN7
Canada18 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:21 DuneBug wrote: uhh it's hard to directly counter void rays with vikings unless you have more of them than they do... it helps to put a turret down and sit the viking near it, thus the viking can hit the void ray and if they chase the viking they'll get shot at by the turret. And due to reactors, and Vikings being cheaper, AND support from marines, it's very easy to accomplish that. | ||
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krowe
United States184 Posts
On May 20 2010 13:38 mrlie3 wrote: I've tried ghost build as well but it seems toss will switch to mass stalkers once he sees 1 ghost and it doesn't seem to work since you are behind in marauder counts. Well if you do the build right, as you work your way into starport for medivacs, by then you should have a bunch of marauders, you only need 3-4 ghosts max for emp and sniper shot, then have the marines and marauders ready. I would say the upgrades are really important as well, emp and stim together really annihilate his army. | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On May 20 2010 14:21 hellz.atalvez wrote: Please calm down all they are suggesting is you scout earlier (i recommend around 12/13 supply when ur first rax finishes or early) but please do not act as though the forum-goers are yelling at you when you refuse to accept their advice Thank you for remaining calm. Scouting wasn't the problem, because in either case I noticed this very early. The problem is knowing what to do in response. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the ghost build, I am looking into that now. | ||
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