EPTT vs proxy forge/gate/cannon/zealot - Page 2
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katzenkoenig
Germany32 Posts
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On April 26 2010 04:45 imBLIND wrote: if you scout him making the pylon, kill the probe (i.e try not to let him build a gateway) if you scout him making the gateway, kill the gateway. never atk pylons because they can be rebuilt. gateways building zlots can't rly be rebuilt. same goes for cannons drag all scvs and atk gateways and use scv/marine to surround the zlot. You can't kill his probe with any amount of SCV's lol. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On April 26 2010 08:41 avilo wrote: I do not think you can kill the gateway before it finishes and chronoboosts a zealot out  edit: I will try that though just to check next time. Don't go for the gateway. Go for pylons. This will both supply block him if he manages to ever get a pylon up, as well as keep him from making cannons or using his gateway. It doesn't matter if it hurts your eco because you're keeping him from doing anything while you get more and more tech out. | ||
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
A much better cheese for P is slowly cannoning in from outside of your visible range. If he already has a cannon inside your base you're hosed. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On April 26 2010 09:22 ghen wrote: As soon as you see the pylon in your face, do everything it takes to kill that probe. There's no reason he should be able to build anything else, you can kill the probe quick and then leave the pylon sit around for a while as your marine finishes. A much better cheese for P is slowly cannoning in from outside of your visible range. If he already has a cannon inside your base you're hosed. Wrong. You can't kill the probe don't try. Kill the pylon as it finishes and just go about your build. Once you've started your barracks you're free to pull as many scvs as you need to to keep him from finishing buildings. | ||
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duckhunt
Canada311 Posts
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
I wouldnt go for pylons as the probe will just keep warping in new ones. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
you now are forced to not go tech lab add-on, And you can't even get an add-on if you want to, he can just park a probe next to your rax. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
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the-darkest-templar
United States32 Posts
Probes do tend to take a split second before warp-ins, however. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
That is why this tactic is such a headache!!!! You cannot go for the pylon, because the gate will finish, which then lets the zealot finish. You cannot go for the gate (well, maybe you can?) because you lose so much mining time to kill a 150 building and they also have a forge+another gate going up. and if you decide to not pull SCVS, well, then you have to bunker and it's going to get cannoned/zealoted, and you die, so you cannot do that either.. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
In the case of a cannon rush it's more beneficial to go after the cannons, as the Protoss won't need supply and because cannons fall faster to SCVs. However, in a gateway rush, going after a pylon is probably your best option. Not only are they easier to kill than gateways, they also provide power to the gateways and supply. Without adequate supply the Protoss cannot pump more zealots and will easily die. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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ExileStrife
United States170 Posts
The first 4 pulled SCVs and tried attacking my pylons or gateway in various efforts. They all failed eventually. The last one remained cool and pulled no SCVs. He made a barracks when he saw my pylon going up, and then calmly made a bunker. That kept him safe. It continued for a bit with me getting a few cannons, but he was also able to get up additional barracks and tech labs. I ultimately got a few cannons down in a critical spot that could hit his buildings, but he just lifted, sat down at his expansion, and won the game. I couldn't do anything with the cannons I made. He could have also just sent a unit or two to my base this entire time (something I was expecting) to make it worse. The moral of the story is; don't overreact to the horror pylon by pulling SCVs. Just play normally and get a bunker and comfortably win. It dragged on for a little bit because I was able to get a forge and cannon going, but I knew I | ||
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On April 26 2010 10:04 Floophead_III wrote: Well pylons are only 200/200 as opposed to 300/300 in BW. However, you may be correct in saying you should go for the gateway, but if you are going to go for the gateway you need to do it as soon as it starts warping in. Put 4 scv on it and that should do the trick. It is indeed right to go for the gateways and not the pylons. Protoss has more than enough minerals to put down as many pylons as he wants (I mean, he's building cannons AND zealots, he can skip a cannon and make another pylon easy), and you'll never supply block a toss who's cutting probes anyways. As for how to kill the gateway, I forget the exact number but you should have it attacked by roughly 3 scv's while it's warping in and 5 once it's finished. If you attack with 5 right away the protoss can cancel his gateway and you're behind on mining time too much. Cannons die to 3-4 scv's as well. I usually leave one scv following the probe around so the toss has to spend his APM keeping it alive. Proxy gate/cannon like that is hard to hold off because it requires you to click fast make crucial decisions while doing so, while the toss is taking it easy. Anything you do that forces toss to use his APM is good. If you have enough minerals to afford a bunker (preferably near his gateway) then great! Just keep in mind that while you do lose mining time, the protoss will lose a probe 2 pylons a forge a cannon a zealot and a gateway (or at least he'll lose alot). And he'll be stuck with rebuilding his tech too. Just worry about surviving the proxy, you won't be as far behind as you think. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
If I see a Terran panic and sends an ungodly number of SCVs to kill my pylon I'll just cancel at the last moment possible and I'll usually still have time to go 10 pylon 10/11 gate so I really won't be that behind due to all the mining time the Terran lost by pulling so many SCVs. | ||
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On April 26 2010 10:13 ExileStrife wrote: I tried this against about 5 terran players. The first 4 pulled SCVs and tried attacking my pylons or gateway in various efforts. They all failed eventually. The last one remained cool and pulled no SCVs. He made a barracks when he saw my pylon going up, and then calmly made a bunker. That kept him safe. It continued for a bit with me getting a few cannons, but he was also able to get up additional barracks and tech labs. I ultimately got a few cannons down in a critical spot that could hit his buildings, but he just lifted, sat down at his expansion, and won the game. I couldn't do anything with the cannons I made. He could have also just sent a unit or two to my base this entire time (something I was expecting) to make it worse. The moral of the story is; don't overreact to the horror pylon by pulling SCVs. Just play normally and get a bunker and comfortably win. It dragged on for a little bit because I was able to get a forge and cannon going, but I knew I By "this" do you mean a proxy 13 gate or a proxy 10 gate? I think I agree you can defend solely with a bunker against a 13 gate since your rax should be completed slightly before the gateway, but I don't see how you'll get a 12 rax up in time to be able to complete a bunker (which requires a barracks) before the first zealot pops. I suppose you could try to micro your marines/scv's until the bunker completes but you'll still just be fighting 1 rax vs 1 gateway, while you're pulling scv's. Usually that ends up costing me the game =( | ||
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Deleted User 55994
949 Posts
On April 26 2010 09:59 avilo wrote: floop, you can't go for the pylon, they rebuild them x2. The zealot will get out and you lose mining time. That is why this tactic is such a headache!!!! You cannot go for the pylon, because the gate will finish, which then lets the zealot finish. You cannot go for the gate (well, maybe you can?) because you lose so much mining time to kill a 150 building and they also have a forge+another gate going up. and if you decide to not pull SCVS, well, then you have to bunker and it's going to get cannoned/zealoted, and you die, so you cannot do that either.. You lose mining time to kill the gate, but then your marine is out which means the probe dies and the 2nd gateway dies faster. If he's spamming pylons, his 2nd gate will be heavily delayed, just as much as your tech is delayed from losing mining time. I'd really like to see a high level replay where the terran attacks the gateway first. So far all i've seen is Nony doing it vs far worse players who attack the pylon. | ||
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fafalecureuil
France69 Posts
On April 26 2010 04:35 avilo wrote: Ok, here is the replay, I am sure other players are wondering wtf to do too  http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2340 When a probe early comes into your base, chase it with one SCV. When you see the proxy pylon, stop SCV production and make a barrack (and reproduce SCVs). Before the 1st chrono-zealot spawn: You have enough time to make a bunker and repulse or kill the drone with your first marine. It's good to kill the pylon because you will kill the probe too. On a smaller map, it would be more difficult. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 26 2010 09:49 awu25 wrote: if he parks a probe by your rax, wouldn't you go and attack to force it to move? If you do that, your own units will be in the way, and if you then press the hotkey for building an addon, your own units will move away, but his probe can return. Anyway, it's obviously not easy to block an addon perfectly (tho you could pylon it if you want), but it's an additional annoyance. | ||
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