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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2381 http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2382 http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2383 http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2385 http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2386 steamrolled every time | ||
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Diaspora
United States140 Posts
All in all it's a build that Terran needs to practice to beat, I highly doubt most people can fend against it the first time they step against it. (I certainly couldn't) http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2387 EDIT: Didnt realize someone posted the replay already, Oh well. | ||
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Opti
United States155 Posts
Not sure what to do vs this to be honest, at best it seems like you can do damage control and pray your opponent slips up with his teching/production at his normal base (ie he doesnt focus 100% on his proxy) but aside from that .. gl. | ||
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kidcrash
United States620 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
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G0liath36O
United States3 Posts
i guess just keep an scv patrolling around the perimeter of your base, youll still lose mineral mining time but youll be able to save yourself from early zealots | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
(In my experience on scrap station the proxy was done in the area between your nat and your main that you don't see when you head straight to your opponent's main.) I mean even if you scout it and get a 2nd rax immediately and pump marines the first 3 zeals can get a few scvs. Then he can pylon in your main and start warping in cannons which is hard to deal with when he has 5 zealots so quickly and you are barely surviving with a bunker+marines. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On April 26 2010 10:45 faction123 wrote: I'd really like to see a high level replay where the terran attacks the gateway first. So far all i've seen is Nony doing it vs far worse players who attack the pylon. Platinum level @ oasis Do not go for the pylon; it'll just turn into the doomgate build in BW. Bunkers are okay, but you need at least 2 of them and hope he doesn't cannon you. Imo, the optimal way to do it on large maps is to kill the gateways. On smaller maps, I'd consider lifting off to another expansion and ignoring his proxy b/c you can counter him faster. | ||
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HolyOnes
Australia52 Posts
I get one scv to attack the probe and one to attack the pylon once it starts warping in. Continue to get a marine asap and get a bunker set up as well asap in range of his buildings. Hopefully you will kill the probe, or have a near dead pylon, or a bunker with a rine tucked in  I found this the greatest way to survive and keep youre economy up.Sometimes you might have to rush all youre scvs over to finish off the pylon, but the cost of pylon plus the gate thats underpowered is more cost to the protoss then to you taking scvs off the minerals for a second | ||
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Yaros
Australia48 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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the-darkest-templar
United States32 Posts
On April 26 2010 22:31 Yaros wrote: I don't know for sure, but couldn't this rush be countered with a reaper rush? Yeah, we've established that. A reaper rush will kill this attack without issue. But going 12 rax isn't a reaper rush, which is the point of this thread. | ||
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Diaspora
United States140 Posts
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fafalecureuil
France69 Posts
The protoss has 35 APM, lose the probe vs SCVs, chrono boost an empty gate while not canceling a zealot in the other dying gate and it's on desert oasis which has a very long distance between bases. | ||
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Fujitsi
Belgium65 Posts
Counterpushed, but he switched to DT's and raped me anyways | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 26 2010 11:28 Diaspora wrote: This is my match versus Nony. I know the build is defendable. However I'm posting it just so people see how difficult it is to fend off. It just takes practicing against this exact build and extremely precise micro. For those who say "Go for the pylon!" It doesn't work if you've seen the replay. It's really the gateway that needs to die. The bunker CANNOT protect everything. So placement of the bunker needs to protect as much as you can. Even in the replay I don't think I could've placed the bunker better. If anything I didn't burn the gateway down and lost to many units due to imperfect micro. All in all it's a build that Terran needs to practice to beat, I highly doubt most people can fend against it the first time they step against it. (I certainly couldn't) http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2387 EDIT: Didnt realize someone posted the replay already, Oh well. yah, seems like just practicing vs it is good, though it is a wtf strong build that is stupid+insane that they literally can just make a pylon vs your 12 rax in your base, in your face, and get away with it. Just lol. On April 26 2010 11:03 fafalecureuil wrote: When a probe early comes into your base, chase it with one SCV. When you see the proxy pylon, stop SCV production and make a barrack (and reproduce SCVs). Before the 1st chrono-zealot spawn: You have enough time to make a bunker and repulse or kill the drone with your first marine. It's good to kill the pylon because you will kill the probe too. On a smaller map, it would be more difficult. Did you read the thread at all or did you come in assuming no one tried that? On April 26 2010 12:25 Liquid`NonY wrote: I think I know what I'd do as T but I'm gonna hold off on saying anything until I can see it work. The Protoss basically has a response to everything that the Terran can try to do, but if the Terran starts to do one thing and then does another, it can kinda be tricky. Toss has to make a million little decisions based on the T's responses and I think there is a combo of things Terran can do to catch Toss off guard lol, the good ol "I have a sweet secret super duper counter and am a top level player but I do not want to share my information in the strat forums!" good one nony! but yah, I am thinking the best response now is to completely and utterly ignore it, proxy a rax outside your main, get reapers, and go kill all their probes, and evac all your SCVS from your main and take another base for an advanage. Otherwise, just seems just takes a fucking insane amount of effort for the little required on the toss's part @_@. On April 26 2010 13:02 Jonoman92 wrote: I've had this happen to me on scrap station a few times where it's impossible to wall off too quickly and it is just about IMPOSSIBLE to come out ahead. Even if you survive they will likely be able to kill more than enough scvs to make up for the small econ hit they took for proxy'ing you. (In my experience on scrap station the proxy was done in the area between your nat and your main that you don't see when you head straight to your opponent's main.) I mean even if you scout it and get a 2nd rax immediately and pump marines the first 3 zeals can get a few scvs. Then he can pylon in your main and start warping in cannons which is hard to deal with when he has 5 zealots so quickly and you are barely surviving with a bunker+marines. yeh, it is pretty impossible to be ahead at all. This build way worse than SC1 proxy gates, where you would be about even, or slightly behind, or slightly ahead from them doing it and you stopping it. But here, FORTY FIVE HP SCVS, and the chronoboost make you WAAAAY behind, even if you stop it. I think the non-existent strategy help that Nony was alluding to, was proxying a rax outside of your main the instant that we see they are doing this tactic, and then going reapers from there on offense. that is the only thing I can think of that would ideally put you ahead or on even footing in a very scrambly game afterwards. so...they proxy the gate in your face, once you see, immediately proxy a rax with scouting scv or another scv somewhere outside ur base, or float a rax out. Then tech lab it and go for reapers while stalling any damage to your SCV line in your main. with your first rax, bunker/marine, and hold while you go do damage to their main. Here is where the little decisions and scouting information the toss has to do come in as nony said. If they do not scout the outside rax, you basically are going to kill all their probes with 1-3 reapers, and then you move your base, for freewin. If they do know what you are doing, then they will have to make tight little decisions on whether to place their first cannon in your base or at their base, which in itself, should allow you to accumulate reapers outside of your base and from there you either decide to bring them back to your main to help, or harrass them. seems very difficult either way for such a stupid easy build toss can do. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 27 2010 00:13 Fujitsi wrote: I had this happen to me today and finally managed to take my own base back by building a factory with tech lab and making a siege tank. I killed the 2 or 3 pylons first, disabling his 5 cannons and 2 gateways. Counterpushed, but he switched to DT's and raped me anyways This is not going to work if you are playing someone executing the build well like nony does. edit: well, it might be possible to defend absolutely perfectly till a tank, but you are going to lose marines/scvs all along the way, and then lose anyways. | ||
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ThisIsJimmy
United States546 Posts
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
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puril
United States43 Posts
a lot of people who proxy gate/forge lock their pylon at the edge of a cliff so you cant get next to it, this is really hard for the terran, there is not much to do. you can pull all your scv's to kill the gateway and lose to something else later, pull just some of the probes, and lose to zealot/canon. here's an idea that i have not tested. just continue your build to reapers, bunker your command center to slow zealot harass and eventually lift to avoid canons, kill the protoss's main base with reapers, then float your command center to a natural or high yield. while he takes your original main base, hold map control with reapers. | ||
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