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Ok Terrans, this might shock you but the counter to the dreaded protoss immortal push is mass Hellion with rauder support.
Try it.
Get 1 Rax pumping rauders, you dont really need stim or shells.
And then get two factories one tech lab and one reactor. Get the Hellion flame upgrade as fast as you can. pump hellions like no tomorrow.
3 to 1 Hellion to rauder.
The hellions do two things, block for your rauders and also can zip past the protoss army and hit their probes.
dont waste your minerals on marines, they are too underpowered at the moment. Just focus on hellions.
And btw, hellion is LIGHT armor so protoss does not have a unit that does extra damage to it.
You might have problems with void rays, but thats not what this is designed to counter.
have fun and get back to winning.
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Gonna try it next TvP. I think you also need a starport w/reactor on the way (after the first clash) to counter Colossi (and possibly Void Rays, but that is a bit more of a tech switch for P).
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phoenixes deal bonus to light!!! gogo graviton
yea that looks like its nice for owning zealots and sentries in a hurry. never realized those guys cost no gas and can make use of the reactor. stalker/immortal would be much tougher to handle.
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One of the games your opponent went ridiculously light on gateway units, I think his push had 3 immortals, 1 sentry, 2 zealots and 1 stalker which just got vaporized by your far superior unit count as there was nothing to tank for the immortals to do their damage. The stalker/immortal push surprised me alot with how well you did. Regardless this definitely seems to have potential against immortal openings seeing as your forces destroyed the toss' with around equal supply, but man, what's with the 10CC/orbital *IN BASE* build lol? Opponents don't even scout ~_~. Leads me to believe this isn't played at a very high level if you're getting away with that.
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I have to say this strat is far too risky if ur opponent is skillful with scouting
but worth to try, cuz many times i see people just push with immortals when vs. terran
Hellion is much cheaper than Immortal, hellion cost no gas
and with some mirco, cross FIRE lol
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On April 21 2010 18:03 Saintmek wrote:
I have to say this strat is far too risky if ur opponent is skillful with scouting
but worth to try, cuz many times i see people just push with immortals when vs. terran
Hellion is much cheaper than Immortal, hellion cost no gas
and with some mirco, cross FIRE lol
Both Zealot and Sentry are light units and only the Stalker and Colossus remain as alternatives on the "Gate-Robo" tech trees. Hellions sound like a really decent alternative, but they do need room to outmaneuver the Protoss army. Thus it might not work on some maps while being awesome on others.
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On April 21 2010 18:12 Rabiator wrote:
Both Zealot and Sentry are light units and only the Stalker and Colossus remain as alternatives on the "Gate-Robo" tech trees. Hellions sound like a really decent alternative, but they do need room to outmaneuver the Protoss army. Thus it might not work on some maps while being awesome on others.
agreed
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And what if they make all stalkers and immortals like toss usually does?
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A faster +1 upgrade would be nice though .. I think I will try that. Lets see if I can get a timing
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On April 21 2010 18:31 link0 wrote:
And what if they make all stalkers and immortals like toss usually does?
Thor and Marauders. With the Thor you can literally kill an immortal with one click. The cannon thingy is sooo powerful, you can't even micro your immortals back, because the cannon stuns them for the entire time.
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If you watch the reps, he did beat someone with immortal/stalker pretty handily with this unit composition, though the player was quite bad, the armies were pretty close in supply. Even without their +damage bonus it seems like hellions do pretty good damage to a clumped up stalker/immortal force when there is a decent mass of them.
Also, as the OP noted - Stalkers and Immortals get no damage bonus against Hellions, so it goes both ways. Hellions actually don't get a damage penalty against immortal shields since they only hit for 8. They cost no gas, so chances are you'll also be ahead of the protoss in upgrades since you'll have alot left over to spend. I can't wait to try this tommorow. Will probably add in some ghosts myself though.
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Wouldn't marines be better then? 2 marines cost the same as a hellion and have the same HP but more than 2x the dps (without stim) against armored units. Marines also benefit from the Stim and +1 infantry attack that you mainly get for marauders.
They are both about equally crappy against sentry guardian shield as well.
Hellions build way faster than marines (for cost), but from a much more expensive building.
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marines have no splash, thats probably why hellions do well. They can clean up zealots quickly and then the splash does damage to a bunch of the range unit clump at a time.
Also building marines means less marauders.
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Ya that's exactly what I thought before reading this thread but i'm not sure now. Line damage coupled with being able to skip stim, combat shield, medivacs, and use ur rax for marauders, and the harrassment potential of a ball of hellions seems pretty strong, as I said though I havn't tried it myself and the only evidence we have of it being decent is one replay in the OP against a protoss who doesn't scout at all  i'm willing to give it a chance, however
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Seriously, why the CC as the first building?  Its really the first time I see this. Well, you get away with it... but isn't there a better opening for this build?
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I really like this idea.
The hellion is a great unit against early-game gateway units. It hard-counters 2 of the 3 early-game units that come out of the gateway. It's also probably the best unit to deal with HT (besides maybe ghost). And then you support with marauder to take care of the immortal.
Btw if toss starts adding stalkers, you WILL need to get shells for your marauders. And as someone said, if you see him going maily for stalker/immortal, then instead of hellion + igniter upgrade on your 1st fac, make armory + thor instead.
Also during mid-game you can make medivac and do hellion drops, or simply run into toss' nat with hellions & roast some probes
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The CC first opening is a terran eco build I have been playing around with for a month or so. Its a pretty safe build and gives you the extra mule very fast. Terran really does not have any early game pressure besides the fast reaper, so I figure might as well use free bunkers and the mule to my advantage. It gets you minerals really fast and also gives you room for a comsat to scout with if you need it. If they zealot rush you can just build reapers and pick them off as you can, or throw them in a bunker. This also can work against zerg too but you have to create a lingproof wall else speedlings will hurt you.
Against another Terran, its not so good because gas is what you need in TvT not minerals, unless you can float to another expo really quick, but its hard to defend two bases early on as T.
But to not get off topic, hellions work.
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oh and a good transition is to 2-3 port banshee, because you will have a ton of gas since you are not using it on stim, combat shields, siege mode, ghosts etc.
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thanks for sharing i'l def try it : D
Also, very newbie question but when do Terrans usually get second gas?
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EPT
